The CBE Scroll

Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality

When being human becomes a nuisance

Written by: on Friday, April 21, 2006

“I would have enjoyed seminary so much more if it wasn’t for the women.”

So were the words of a minister I was introduced to one day several years ago. Mindy and I were together, and both of us were introduced, but he looked right past her and ignored her “hello.” She was invisible. He heard I was a Ph.D. student at a reformed seminary and wanted to know if I was enjoying it.

“It’s been challenging,” I told him. “But I’m learning from the best and I’m enjoying it. Where did you go to seminary?”

He told me, then added those words that have stayed with me for years.

Of course my curiosity got the best of me. “What was it about the women that ruined seminary for you?”

“The questions,” he replied curtly. “They interrupted the class with their questions.”

As the conversation continued, I learned that he saw seminary training as only for men. According to him, while it was acceptable for the men to ask questions—or even challenge the professor (perhaps even a right of passage)—it was a nuisance when women did it. They were to learn at home from their husbands, to ask them the questions.

At that time, I wanted to give him as much room as possible. I didn’t know the man all that well and wondered if he might just need some direction. Added to this was the fact that some people I knew attended his church. I needed to figure out the best approach to helping someone like him along.

Unfortunately, I never got to do this. Within little time I discovered that his problem went beyond a misunderstanding of gender roles. He really wanted his women silent. Women in his church were to receive communion only from their husbands and only with their husband’s permission. He started a blog seeking out every “feminist heresy,” which he seemed to see as the root of all evil. Women were infantilized, better “seen and not heard.”

He was not alone.

During a seminary class one day, a female student, one of the few at this seminary at that time, asked a challenging question. The professor answered and class moved on. A few male students behind me started talking when she exited the room after class.

“Why do you think she’s here?” asked the one.

“I don’t know,” answered the other.

I stood to pack up my things, watching and listening. There was a look of bewilderment on their faces. It was as if no one wanted to ask it, but they all thought it: “What would she do with a seminary degree? It’s not like she can be a minister.” Someone might as well have dressed up a monkey in a suit and sent it off to seminary.

There was a moment of silence.

“Maybe she’s trying to find herself,” said another student.

Ah, yes. Of course. They all nodded in agreement. She couldn’t possibly be there for the same reasons they were! If she was, then she was a feminist. Was she secretly working for the other side? There was a little Monty Python reasoning going on: if she weighs as much as a duck, then she’s made of wood, and therefore she’s a witch!

Or maybe, like Dorothy Sayers once wrote, there is nothing in her shape that keeps her from wanting to study Aristotle. Maybe, God made human beings, male and female, to learn, grow, and improve themselves and the rest of humanity. Maybe he gives each of them a desire to pursue what they do best. Even more importantly, maybe God made her to learn about him and maybe she is human after all.

I like to imagine that these students went home that day and took a hard look at their wives or daughters or sisters, and asked themselves the hard questions. That’s just the optimist in me. But I know that there are plenty of men, like the patriarchal minister, that will spend the rest of their lives fighting women as seductresses eager to take a man down.

Why should any one be so intimidated by the other gender? Why is their “manliness” threatened by the humanity of women? Why do human beings, whether against another gender or race, feel better when they force silence and submission on another person?

The easy answer is sin. But when it comes to the complicated one—that is, why sin is manifested in this way—why do certain persons act in this way while others do not? I’m not sure why.

16 Comments »

107

Comment by B-W

April 21, 2006 @ 9:30 am

Stories like this one truly anger me. Clearly, we have a long way to go….

108

Comment by Can Dance

April 21, 2006 @ 10:03 am

What a thoroughly depressing story. I really hope that was a long long long time ago.
I also don’t see how complementarians don’t make the connect between the Fall and what it did to women. “He shall rule over you” sure explains a lot to me and the argument about pre-Fall male hiearchy is so weak.

That Dorothy Sayers essay is excellent. We just finished studying it in my CBE book study. It sounds absurd on the surface to ask if women are human, and yet, it really is an underlying question to most absurd argruments that hiearchialists make.

110

Comment by Brandon Withrow

April 21, 2006 @ 1:17 pm

I’ll have to write a more encouraging story next time. :)

What prompted me to write this was a conversation I had over the weekend on gender equality. Being still so thoroughly connected to conservative communities, I tend to hear or experience these situations often enough. I figure writing about them makes for good public awareness and offers this recovering fundamentalist some mental therapy.

The good news is that the seminary where the student conversation took place has increased the number of female students and I think that helps to change perception. The first situation remains the same however.

You are right that it seems absurd to say that women are human. It should go without saying. But when you consider how young certain civil rights are in terms of world history….

I think every seminarian should be required to read Sayers.

112

Comment by Sary

April 21, 2006 @ 2:09 pm

Having sat under the minister Brandon was referring to, I can only say how right he was in his perceptions of the man. A female friend of mine is yet under his leadership and I pray daily for her – and for the rest of the women in his congregation. Perhaps I should be praying more for him than these women.

114

Comment by Mar

April 21, 2006 @ 5:18 pm

Thanks,Brandon,for taking the time to share with us and reminding us that we’re all created in the image of God.

115

Comment by Anne M

April 21, 2006 @ 5:42 pm

What really puzzles me is the power of religion to attract women. It is one thing to have a mentally perverted minister and another to have a full congregation following him. Perhaps part of it is the silence that people who even see it are falling into. That is really bad. The silence I mean.

131

Comment by bobbie

April 22, 2006 @ 10:00 am

i was one of those women, hungry for theology and god and stranded in a denomination that silenced me fully. they trained my brain but denied my ability to use it.

during my most broken confused moments i would pray for a son to be able to teach him all that i had learned so it wouldn’t go to waste. oh how very sad.

thank you for putting this story out here brandon – people really need to know that this is really happening NOW – this isn’t back in the 1920′s – this is still happening today. we haven’t come anywhere – augustine thought women were vile creatures used only to lure men into sin – how different is this minister from church history 1700 years ago? sad indeed.

152

Comment by Brandon Withrow

April 25, 2006 @ 7:12 am

Sary:
Pray for both of them. You never know what God will use to change a person’s heart, even the stony ones.

Anne:
From the conversations I’ve had with women who are/were under abusive or oppressive church leadership, it seems to me that they generally convince themselves to stick around by reminding themselves that their desire to be elsewhere is simply their sinfulness.

In other words, “I wouldn’t feel this way about the leadership, how I’m treated, etc. if it wasn’t for my sinful nature.” It is a good motive (obedience) with a bad result. A legitimate desire for sanctification keeps them from questioning those around them.

In other situations, when the minister sounds the alarm enough about how corrupt the church has become, to challenge that is to feel like one is risking eternal separation from God himself.

Bobbie:
It is sad that one would have to suffer such confusion in a community that is supposed to help bring clarity to life. But the desire to have someone to pass our knowledge along to is proof that you are created in the image of God and are fully human. What is Scripture, except God’s own desire to tell us about him. To want to work that out in your own life is to reflect this aspect of his nature. And now you can thank him for using those moments of confusion to bring more clarity into your life.

153

Comment by Lori

April 25, 2006 @ 7:21 am

“Why should any one be so intimidated by the other gender? Why is their “manliness” threatened by the humanity of women? Why do human beings, whether against another gender or race, feel better when they force silence and submission on another person?”

Thank you for having the courage to say this Brandon, because I’ve wondered it for a long time. Why this obsession with women? Why this need to categorize and define them?

I mean, I glanced at an anti-egalitarian website once. They had this booklet that they put out, and the advertisement for it went something like this:

“Lots of churches contact us and they want to know–can women be Sunday School teachers? Can they be a deacon? Serve on a worship team?” and on and on. “Our booklet tells you what women can and can’t do in a church.”

I remember reading this and thinking, “My stars, why not just ask what God wants them to do? Why on earth do we have to pidgeonhole women like schoolchildren (you’re smarter, so you go into the smart class, etc.)?”

Why do certain groups and people feel compelled to make sure their women are silent and obedient? I’m sure there’s some kind of psychological explanation, and I would love to hear it.

155

Comment by the Foolish Sage

April 25, 2006 @ 7:29 am

I hate to pile on a sad story with yet another one, but people need to know that this is happening in 2006. A female seminarian classmate of mine and her husband attend a local conservative Reformed church. One Sunday recently a man in the church was handing out a flyer to people entering the service. It happens that this man was aware of, and resentful of, my friends more egalitarian views. He handed the flyer to her husband, but refused to give one to her. “I already gave one to the head of your household,” he told her.

Yes, it’s alive and well and stinking in 2006.

169

Comment by Lori

April 26, 2006 @ 10:19 am

“From the conversations I’ve had with women who are/were under abusive or oppressive church leadership, it seems to me that they generally convince themselves to stick around by reminding themselves that their desire to be elsewhere is simply their sinfulness.

In other words, “I wouldn’t feel this way about the leadership, how I’m treated, etc. if it wasn’t for my sinful nature.” It is a good motive (obedience) with a bad result. A legitimate desire for sanctification keeps them from questioning those around them.

In other situations, when the minister sounds the alarm enough about how corrupt the church has become, to challenge that is to feel like one is risking eternal separation from God himself.”

In other words, classic brainwashing.

172

Comment by Brandon Withrow

April 26, 2006 @ 5:40 pm

Yes. I’ve seen the effects of brainwashing.

Also, never underestimate the suspicious mind type. Sometimes it’s a sad playing out of a particular eschatological view that keeps a person looking for corruption and not necessarily an intentional deception. The problem then is a worldview, often one that is suspicious of those who attempt to correct it.

With some of the brainwashing that I’ve seen, it often involves the removal of family connections and an insistence on keeping women out of any church decision-making meetings (“in the dark” so-to-speak). In one church I know of, they are called “head of household” meeetings. Which I guess is similar to the situation mentioned by Foolish Sage above.

220

Comment by Can Dance

May 2, 2006 @ 9:01 am

Foolish sage: If she’d be thinking, she should have said “when did Jesus walk in and how’d I miss that?” ;)

Comment by Kathryn Vance

June 15, 2006 @ 3:14 pm

Israel was commanded by God to remind Him of His covenant (all first 5 books of the Old Testament). The Bible is a Book of covenant (“Testament” means “Covenant”). As the Blood Covenant children of God, we Christians can do the same thing today. We can go to Him in prayer and say something like “Lord I thank you for your covenant. Thank you that “there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female, we are all one in Christ Jesus.” Thank you for revealing yourself to Abraham as the breasty nurse (Heb. language Gen. 17:1).” Remind Him of all His covenant promises (Gen. 1:21 and 1:27, to name a few), and all the women He used in Bible times, such as Deborah, the prophetess and judge. Hearing yourself say this will build faith inside you and destroy the works of our spiritual enemy, the devil. (Yes I realize I’m saying “Lord”, “Him” and “He” to describe God, but God meets us where we are, not where we will be some day.) You will be amazed at the results (Jeremiah 29:13, Heb. 11:6, to name only a few).

Comment by Kathryn Vance

June 28, 2006 @ 1:27 pm

In the above comment, I mentioned Genesis 1:21. The correct reference is Genesis 1:26.

Comment by Kathryn

July 16, 2006 @ 9:38 pm

That story is still all too common, although the situation will surely become easier as time goes by if we don’t give up. I’m sure the disciples must have had similar feelings, even worse, about Mary Magdalene and the other women who followed Jesus. “They’re destined to be housewives, so what are they doing here? Why is our Lord even trying to teach them? They’re nothing but women anyway.” Blessedly, He didn’t share that opinion, and neither did the women. Mary Magdalene would have missed out on the greatest honor of her life if she had allowed patriarchy to push her into quitting before the resurrection. There is a lot to be said for perseverance.

RSS feed for comments on this post.

Leave a comment

XHTML: You can use these tags: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

 

Bad Behavior has blocked 261 access attempts in the last 7 days.