The CBE Scroll

Comment by Jamie Hollis

May 14, 2006 @ 12:54 pm

My husband and I will be attending seminary this fall and we have already began to see this unconscious prejudice play out among proclaiming egalitarians. Everyone in our congregation knows that we will be attending AMBS this fall and yet when I mention plans regarding my upcoming classes, etc. I have frequently been getting the response, “Oh, so you’ll be getting a degree too?” It seems that many are making the assumption that when we say “we” we mean him, when in reality we will both be getting our M.Divs. I fully expected to get people wanting to argue with me attending seminary, but I didn’t expect sexism to rise to the surface in this more subtle way.

Comment by Michelle Sanchez

May 16, 2006 @ 6:52 pm

It is such a sad and unfortunate reality to me how marriage and childbearing tend to “downgrade” a woman’s status in this society - and that is often subtly the case across the board, both for egalitarians and for complementarians. I have been happily married now for 4 years, but I must admit that when I was considering getting engaged I actually felt quite a bit of resistance in my heart. I knew that as soon as I yoked myself to a man in marriage, my image would suddenly diminish in the minds of others (whether they consciously recognized this or not.) For my entire life, I have been respected and valued for my own personhood and achievements. However, after marriage, my identity has constantly been defined in the shadow of my husband. And this has been true regardless of whether I am the more “gifted” one in certain areas or not. I graduated from high school as the Valedictorian of my class, and did similarly well in college. I worked as a Wall Street executive at a prestigious investment bank. I am highly accomplished and intelligent - and people do perceive me to be this way, when I am by myself! However, with my husband at my side, suddenly I can be totally ignored or overlooked.

I completely resonated with the last comment about the couple going to seminary. I am actually in seminary right now with my husband - and we have chosen a seminary that is very friendly both to complementarians and egalitarians. We did this because we are still trying to figure out where we stand on gender roles. We are both enrolled in the same program and take many of the same classes. Before coming here, most people assumed that I would NOT be getting a degree…although my academic record thus far has been better than my husband’s. And unfortunately, since I have been here, this type of subtle downgrading has not stopped. On the first day of one of our classes that my husband and I were taking together, the professor asked us all to introduce ourselves. My husband introduced himself first and explained his particular interests in ministry and theology. He concluded by mentioning that I was his wife. It was then my turn to introduce myself. But before I could say anything, the (male) professor said to me in front of everyone: “Oh, how nice! Would you like to introduce yourself too?” I remember how my heart just sank straight to my feet in humiliation. Did he assume that I was just there in his class as a side-kick?! I struggled to get something out, but it certainly was less enthusiastic than it would have been.

It is so hard to explain to men - or even to single women - how painful and frustrating it is to live in this state of “married invisibility”…And one thing that it does within my soul, which I know is not really good, is that it creates a tremendous desire within me to “prove myself.” I later performed tremendously well in the class I just mentioned - in fact, I probably “beat out” everyone in the class including my husband! - but I wonder if the “spirit” in which I did it was totally honorable. I hate to have this constant feeling of needing to show others that despite the fact that I am married, I have not in fact lost my brain…that I still am just as talented and intellectually independent as I was before marriage…that my interests are not clones of my husband’s…you get the idea!

I really have no idea how to overcome this frustration. But I will close by referring to an even greater frustration and fear that I have - having children!! I do not have any children yet, though my husband and I plan to have some after we complete our graduate studies. I believe, of course, that children are a blessing from the Lord and I certainly do not want to demean the call to motherhood in any way. However, I also am already mindful of the social realities that will come with childbearing. If I have been “downgraded” somewhat by marriage, then having children is the ultimate “intellectual demotion”…if I have become somewhat invisible through marriage, then children will thoroughly complete the transformation to total transparency!

Nonetheless, my life is in the Lord’s hands…May He give me (and all others out there in the same boat!) grace and patience to remember that my identity is in Christ and not in the minds and stereotypes of others.

Comment by Jon Trott

May 23, 2006 @ 10:30 am

Sigh. This also happens with my wife and I when among others. A few culturally-embedded realities that I think contribute to it:

* A response to a lower-toned voice as more authoritative (male-sounding equals “here’s the authority”)

* A response to a physically more imposing person (I’m 6′2″ and my dearling is 5′4″).

* Implied strength. The male body equals physical power compared (in general) to his female counterpart(s). Physical power equals authority? How sadly unbiblical.

* My own assumption that people prefer to hear from me rather than her. Here’s where my own darkness is exposed to the light, alas. My wife more than once has been hurt by my interrupting her, or just talking non-stop. She “gets it” why this is. I consider myself, and my own thoughts/opinions, more important and pertinent than hers! This stinks from the Christian point of view.

Sigh. As black evangelical John Perkins would say, “Confession is good for the soul!”

Comment by Liz

May 27, 2006 @ 4:40 am

Yes… this happens all the time for us and it is hurtful to my husband as well as me. Sometimes he says he almost wishes he wasn’t a man because of the way he is always given preferential treatment - even among people who agree with us doctrinally. One way we try to turn this around is making comment when we see it done to others and making a particular point of asking a woman what is her opinion on an issue (almost ignoring the man to make the point). It sure makes for a lot of hard work with conversation not being as natural as we would like. When we are with a group, Trevor often asks me to pray for people where they usually would expect him to do so (particularly as he has been “the pastor” for many years, long before I was ‘allowed’ by the church to share ministry responsibilities).

It was wonderful as a single woman as I didn’t know such prejudice existed and just did or said whatever I felt. I have since found out that I was considered very outspoken but it went over my head at that time. Ignorance is certainly bliss. I have to constantly ask God to help me not be conscious of what others may be thinking and just be myself, but it’s hard work.

Comment by Kathryn Vance

June 27, 2006 @ 11:39 pm

I want to thank everyone for their honesty and openness. It isn’t easy to overcome the negative aspects of our cultural training. I am sure these posts are going to bring comfort to others who are dealing with this in their lives too.

Comment by sally

July 3, 2006 @ 3:25 am

Here’s something interesting. My husband and I recently went for a job interview at a church (he’s just finishing bible college) where there is a male senior minister (and his wife) and assistant female minister (and husband).

Every one of us would call ourselves egalitarian - especially me. Yet, when the husband of the female assistant spoke up in the interview, my immediate, almost subconscious but not quite, thought was “He’s not very important, what’s he speaking for.”

I gave the preferential treatment to the female assistant, but semi-consciously didn’t bother with her husband because I didn’t see him as important.

Perhaps its just human sinfulness - we just concentrate on the ones that we perceive to be important! As a general rule, they are the males, so it can look like gender prejudice. But I think it might just be power prejudice.

Comment by Kathryn

July 14, 2006 @ 9:58 pm

That’s a very interesting observation, Sally. Thank you for bringing another angle to this subject.