Comments on: Devil with the Blue Dress http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/ Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:28:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Moderator http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-8382 Moderator Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:11:08 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-8382 Re comment #8: Great idea, Douglas. I just changed the post template to match the main template so both now show the author instead of the categories. Re comment #8: Great idea, Douglas. I just changed the post template to match the main template so both now show the author instead of the categories.

]]> By: Lori http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-6751 Lori Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:27:38 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-6751 In reference to that website that sold Victorian clothing as "proper" for Christian women, that reminds me of something. On another egalitarian forum where I belong, somebody posted this link to a blog written by a really angry, ranting comp. He was calling on men to emulate the OT prophets who dared to preach God's judgment. He also called for men to start venerating women again. That last bit really jumped out at me. "Venerate" is normally used to describe the worship of a saint. Is that how we also want to treat women, as something to be worshipped? Also, this attitude of putting a woman on a pedestal and worshipping them has been used for centuries by men to keep women "in their place." In medieval times, a knight in shining armor would worship his fair lady from afar. Of course, the women had to remain pure, while the men felt free to run around and sleep with whomever they wanted. A graphic example of this attitude can be found in one of the early Princes of Wales. He caught his wife having an affair and banished her to a convent in disgrace. However, he himself had had mistresses before and nobody every thought to question it. That's just what men did back then. In Victorian times, the "angel of the house" was expected to set a shining example of morality for her family, while the husband was free to indulge in sexual sin. I recently watched a documentary about the Victorian era. They talked about this British woman in India who had an affair with a native. Her husband caught them and nearly beat her to death. In order to keep from being disgraced in the eyes of British society, she accused the native of raping her and even testified to that under oath. The poor native man went to jail for a crime he didn't commit, while, to the rest of the world, this woman and her family lived "happily ever after" as the model family. With all due respect to this blog writer, I don't want to be worshipped or venerated; I want to be respected. And I don't want my husband calling down the wrath of God like some OT prophet. I would rather he follow the example of Jesus and model humility, servanthood, and compassion. In reference to that website that sold Victorian clothing as “proper” for Christian women, that reminds me of something. On another egalitarian forum where I belong, somebody posted this link to a blog written by a really angry, ranting comp. He was calling on men to emulate the OT prophets who dared to preach God’s judgment. He also called for men to start venerating women again.

That last bit really jumped out at me. “Venerate” is normally used to describe the worship of a saint. Is that how we also want to treat women, as something to be worshipped? Also, this attitude of putting a woman on a pedestal and worshipping them has been used for centuries by men to keep women “in their place.” In medieval times, a knight in shining armor would worship his fair lady from afar. Of course, the women had to remain pure, while the men felt free to run around and sleep with whomever they wanted. A graphic example of this attitude can be found in one of the early Princes of Wales. He caught his wife having an affair and banished her to a convent in disgrace. However, he himself had had mistresses before and nobody every thought to question it. That’s just what men did back then.

In Victorian times, the “angel of the house” was expected to set a shining example of morality for her family, while the husband was free to indulge in sexual sin. I recently watched a documentary about the Victorian era. They talked about this British woman in India who had an affair with a native. Her husband caught them and nearly beat her to death. In order to keep from being disgraced in the eyes of British society, she accused the native of raping her and even testified to that under oath. The poor native man went to jail for a crime he didn’t commit, while, to the rest of the world, this woman and her family lived “happily ever after” as the model family.

With all due respect to this blog writer, I don’t want to be worshipped or venerated; I want to be respected. And I don’t want my husband calling down the wrath of God like some OT prophet. I would rather he follow the example of Jesus and model humility, servanthood, and compassion.

]]> By: LJR http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-6685 LJR Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:44:02 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-6685 Re: comment #9, Francine: I did not know that piece of translation info. Thank you! :D Re: comment #9, Francine: I did not know that piece of translation info. Thank you! :D

]]> By: Francine I Erre http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-6586 Francine I Erre Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:29:46 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-6586 I had to quit laughing about the "virtuous woman" perfume before commenting. The sad part of it is apparently most of them (including us) have not looked the word virtuous up in their "Brown-Driver-Briggs" Hebrew Lexicon. It is a masuline noun that is normally translated as army, great host (another word for army), mighty men of valor, etc. The only time it is translated as virtuous is in the three (actually four) verses when it had to do with women. It probably should be translated as "Who can find a mighty woman of Valor? for her praise is far above rubies." No wonder this type of woman is so hard to find even today. A woman that will stand up and be counted for God and help fight the battles He has given her. Maybe we need to come out with one of our own or simply rename "Virtuous Woman" Perfume to the "Woman of Valor" scent. It is amazing how one word translated wrong (and uncorrected) for centuries can cause so many problems. I had to quit laughing about the “virtuous woman” perfume before commenting. The sad part of it is apparently most of them (including us) have not looked the word virtuous up in their “Brown-Driver-Briggs” Hebrew Lexicon. It is a masuline noun that is normally translated as army, great host (another word for army), mighty men of valor, etc. The only time it is translated as virtuous is in the three (actually four) verses when it had to do with women. It probably should be translated as “Who can find a mighty woman of Valor? for her praise is far above rubies.” No wonder this type of woman is so hard to find even today. A woman that will stand up and be counted for God and help fight the battles He has given her. Maybe we need to come out with one of our own or simply rename “Virtuous Woman” Perfume to the “Woman of Valor” scent.
It is amazing how one word translated wrong (and uncorrected) for centuries can cause so many problems.

]]> By: Douglas LeBlanc http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-6474 Douglas LeBlanc Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:48:14 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-6474 Please consider adjusting your blog's template to indicate the author of a post, which is of far more interest to me (as a writer) than which categories the post is filed under. I mention this because when a writer uses the first-person voice, it helps to know who the first person is. Otherwise, many thanks for launching this blog. I love the stained-glass logo. Please consider adjusting your blog’s template to indicate the author of a post, which is of far more interest to me (as a writer) than which categories the post is filed under. I mention this because when a writer uses the first-person voice, it helps to know who the first person is.

Otherwise, many thanks for launching this blog. I love the stained-glass logo.

]]> By: Psalmist in Texas http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-6469 Psalmist in Texas Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:46:05 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-6469 LOL, Brandon! C'mon...manly men don't wear that "stinky stuff." Don't you know the pink and blue rules? :D When I see what passes for solid biblical interpretation among some (mostly male) pro-patriarchy Christians, I see very little solid discernment of heresy. A fair bit of promoting heresy and a whole lot of promoting questionable doctrine and practice, but very little discernment of heresy. Their promotion of the "eternal subordination of the Son" types of "doctrines" (simply because without it, defense of patriarchy as biblical would largely fall apart) is a good case in point. LOL, Brandon! C’mon…manly men don’t wear that “stinky stuff.” Don’t you know the pink and blue rules? :D

When I see what passes for solid biblical interpretation among some (mostly male) pro-patriarchy Christians, I see very little solid discernment of heresy. A fair bit of promoting heresy and a whole lot of promoting questionable doctrine and practice, but very little discernment of heresy. Their promotion of the “eternal subordination of the Son” types of “doctrines” (simply because without it, defense of patriarchy as biblical would largely fall apart) is a good case in point.

]]> By: Brandon http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-6403 Brandon Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:15:35 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-6403 On the note of men being the "fighters:" women are sometimes considered incapable of doing spiritual battle by patriarchalists because they are believed to be less prone "to identifying heresy," as one put it. That is another unfounded, but deeply ingrained cultural perception that affects the interpretation of Scripture and is then re-told to some women from their earliest years. Maybe I should start a "Virtuous Male" cologne, or "Scent of a Warrior." :) On the note of men being the “fighters:” women are sometimes considered incapable of doing spiritual battle by patriarchalists because they are believed to be less prone “to identifying heresy,” as one put it. That is another unfounded, but deeply ingrained cultural perception that affects the interpretation of Scripture and is then re-told to some women from their earliest years.

Maybe I should start a “Virtuous Male” cologne, or “Scent of a Warrior.” :)

]]> By: Mindy http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-6315 Mindy Sat, 19 Aug 2006 17:21:54 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-6315 Brandon, thank you for your perceptive reading of O'Connor. The human heart is so self-deceptive! Thank God that he reveals our heart issues one layer at a time, or we would be irreparably devastated by the "assortment of unsavory items" buried within ourselves. Only the Spirit of God can strip away our cultural limitations and teach us to recognize his truth and speak it to one another in love. Stacey, I think you're on to something with the virtuous floor wax. Trademark it and get on the phone with the perfume people! Brandon, thank you for your perceptive reading of O’Connor. The human heart is so self-deceptive! Thank God that he reveals our heart issues one layer at a time, or we would be irreparably devastated by the “assortment of unsavory items” buried within ourselves. Only the Spirit of God can strip away our cultural limitations and teach us to recognize his truth and speak it to one another in love.

Stacey, I think you’re on to something with the virtuous floor wax. Trademark it and get on the phone with the perfume people!

]]> By: Psalmist in Texas http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2006/08/devil-with-the-blue-dress/comment-page-1/#comment-6296 Psalmist in Texas Sat, 19 Aug 2006 05:14:07 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=75#comment-6296 In all seriousness, there are patriarchalists who declare that it is an exclusively masculine responsibility to battle the forces of evil; Jesus creates manly men like himself to fight that fight (and all others). Women must never deny their feminine "role" by fighting, even spiritually. So for women: "Virtuous Woman" eau de stinque, good. "Full Armor of God," bad. Not that I'm buying that thoroughly non-biblical line--or "Virtuous Woman" scent, either. I have an allergic reaction to most perfumes. Does that make me a "Woman without Virtue?" :) In all seriousness, there are patriarchalists who declare that it is an exclusively masculine responsibility to battle the forces of evil; Jesus creates manly men like himself to fight that fight (and all others). Women must never deny their feminine “role” by fighting, even spiritually.

So for women: “Virtuous Woman” eau de stinque, good. “Full Armor of God,” bad.

Not that I’m buying that thoroughly non-biblical line–or “Virtuous Woman” scent, either. I have an allergic reaction to most perfumes. Does that make me a “Woman without Virtue?” :)

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