Never-the-less, it is a difficult wait. No doubt lots of emotions accompany that wait.

i will pray for a miracle for you.

(God you know Sherry’s heart and desire to follow after you and the call that tugs at her heart–the call you placed within her. Move on her behalf and open a door that is right for her and just right for a congregation. Even now, prepare a congregation to receive her with great welcome and opportunity. In the meantime, provide her with ministry friends who will keep on praying for a miracle with her. In the name of Jesus, Amen)

I will keep praying.

The men really appreciated her. She was a motherly type woman and believe it or not, I think the younger men related to her as a mother.

This woman has probably passed on to heaven now. She was one of the most kindest Christians I ever met in my life. She cared for many people other Christians don’t care about. She was truly an example of a Godly Christian.

That’s a religiously popular claim in some circles, made by people who cling to the masculine generic in language and to masculine preeminence in church and family–often in society as well. You apparently believe those who make that claim, which is unfortunate because they’re simply not telling you the truth. Translations which do not use the masculine generic exclusively, are simply more accurate to current English than those which were made with an a priori, published intention to keep the masculine generic. Repeating their inaccurate statements about translations they don’t like, doesn’t make the statements true.

As for men who would stay away from a church because God calls and uses a woman as the pastor there, well…the argument would be with the One Who did the calling and placing. Either the men are willing to submit to God’s will, or they’re not. If they’re sincerely not willing believe that God DOES call and equip women to be church pastors, the world is hardly lacking in churches where they won’t be pushed out of that particular comfort zone. God is not going to stop calling women as pastors, nor should those churches in which God places those pastors, seek to silence or limit them in order to make a few men happy.

I worship with plenty of men who are challenged every week to obey God and follow Jesus Christ. (We women are, too, of course.) In addition to both lay men and women who lead and teach, the pastor who leads and preaches is female. Her gender neither threatens the men’s masculinity nor diminishes their faith, nor does it compromise the faith or femininity of the women. And the congregation is growing, praise God. It’s no easy-answer false gospel or plug-into chain-of-command that’s being taught and preached, either. God regularly steps on our toes and often issues a shove in the right direction through our church leaders, the pastor included. They’re the vessels; the word comes from God. Keeping the focus on God, rather than fretting over whether the pastor is the “correct” gender, is pretty essential for all of us Christians, it seems to me.

In reply to #16, it was stated that women in general don’t mind going to a male-led church. In our experience there are an increasing number of women who do not feel comfortable sitting in a situation where men are perceived to be ‘in power or authority’.
Why do you think The Da Vinci Code and the whole cottage industry of books claiming the Chuch has concealed the presence of women are so hugely popular? Primarily because women know they are not represented in the mainstream churches and want something different. That also explains why Wicca/The Goddess movement is one of fastest growing religions among teenage girls.

For a really great perspective, read Dance of the Dissident Daughter by Sue Monk Kidd. She grew up Southern Baptist, and even married an SB pastor. She admits that her marriage was good. (“My husband never made me submit to him.”) One day, though, she just got tired of it all. She got tired of sitting in a male-run church hearing men tell her what she was supposed to believe about God and how she was supposed to follow the rules to be a good wife/mother. She even felt oppressed by the church itself, since it had stained glass windows that portrayed men from the Bible. Where were the women? Where were their voices? Kidd felt completely left out, so she simply left, and began her own spiritual voyage that led her to Goddess worship.

Along the way, she tells some very vivid stories. For instance, one year during Vacation Bible School, the boys in her class were teasing the girls. “You have to do what we tell you! The Bible says so!” The girls ran inside the church and asked their teacher, a woman, if this was true. “With a defeated air, and look on her face as if to say, What can we do? she admitted that it was true. Men were in charge here.”

And there was the time a guest pastor came to her childhood church. He illustrated on a whiteboard how God was on top, men were next, then women, then children. As the pastor put it, women were the “second created and the first to fall,” thereby justifying their subordination.

As I read her story, many times I was moved to tears. The only difference between her and me is where we ended up spiritually. I am still a Christian but, if I had not discovered people in the church who valued women, then I would have felt as confined and unhappy as she did. While I feel sorry that she ended up leaving Christianity, I can totally sympathize. What did she have in the church? A gospel preached by men for men. Men are in charge. Men make the decisions. Men tell women what to do and what to believe. Women are accepted as long as they follow men’s rules. Reading her story, I wanted to shout “Amen!” because I had the same feelings that she did.

And that’s why her book is so valuable, and why I think every Christian should read it. As Kidd herself confesses, she had felt these misgivings for years, but never did anything about them because she was taught not to speak out. How many women are there like her sitting in America’s pews, afraid to speak out? I bet it’s a lot more than the male leadership of these denominations would like to admit. I know because I’m one of them. I would have stayed with Christianity because I didn’t want to go to Hell, but I would have been miserable.

From #23:

If a man can’t deal with a female pastor who at least makes an effort to speak his language, that’s really his problem.

I’m sorry, but really I have to agree. If a man simply cannot deal with a godly woman who is clearly speaking God’s truth, then it is an attitude problem on his part.

My husband and I are both local preachers in the Methodist church. My husband was the one who encouraged me to follow in his footsteps because he saw the same gifting in me. He attends every service I take and has no problem with it. Here in our district the vast majority of LP’s are women, yet in the years I’ve been here I’ve never heard any grumbling on the part of the men in the congregations. (I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, just that it’s not an open and vocal issue like in America.)

Because we both come from more charismatic backgrounds, hubby and I attend a non-denomiational church on Saturday nights. This church has women on the worship team and has even had women preach before. Again, no grumbling from the men, just a lot of praise. In fact, just before Easter, the pastor pulled people from the congregation to illustrate a biblical truth, and he used a woman to represent God! The reason? “The Bible says that God has both masculine and feminine characteristics, so why not?” Nobody seemed to mind, least of all the men. To be blunt, I have found far more acceptance of women in British churches than I ever did being raised in patriarchal American ones.

I really think it is a pride issue. “I’m the man. I’m the head of the household or the church. I can’t let any woman have any authority over me.” Not only does that completely contradict Paul’s admonishment in Eph 5:21, it is also in complete contrast to the attitude I see here in the UK. Here I see a great deal of humility in the men, and I have seen the Spirit moving in ways I rarely saw back in the States. I don’t believe that’s a coincidence.

The second issue is easy. It is far easier to find women who know a thing or few about stereotypically male things like sports or car repair than it is to find a man who understands the stereotypically female stuff. A female pastor who understands this would easily be able to use examples in her sermons that would help both sexes more easily understand her point. If anything, hierarchal men take an enormous amount of pride in _not_ being able to “think like a woman” and so would have no reason to use illustrations which appeal to both sexes. If a man can’t deal with a female pastor who at least makes an effort to speak his language, that’s really his problem. Women have had to force ourselves to deal with men in church leadership who don’t even try to speak our language for years, and we’re still here. *shrug*

The first issue is trickier.

As several others have said, most of us have never had a choice in the matter about the sex of a pastor. Especially for us theologically conservative and moderate Southerners, a female pastor would be nearly impossible to find. (I’ve heard rumors of one somewhere in my town, but I don’t know.)

I have known many sexual abuse survivors over the years, the vast majority female. Male pastors teaching about, say, sex or relationships have no clue that some things they say from the pulpit are actually harmful to the survivors in their congregations. Sometimes the treatment of these survivors away from the pulpit is also inexcusable.

I went to a church in which there was an obvious double standard about infidelity or abuse and divorce. One guess which spouse was free to leave if they were the “innocent” party. Hint: Not the wife. I know of domestic violence victims who have been sent back into the fists of their abusive husbands, and some of these women didn’t live long after that.

For these girls and women, there’s no safety in an all-male pastorate or other authority structure. There is no security in knowing that they have nobody speaking for them in church matters or concerned about their interests. “Get over it and submit” is not an appropriate answer for these people. Shared leadership would be far better. Demonstrating that men and women can behave in a mutually respectful manner can be a powerful healing tool for these people. Also, if, as hierarchs claim, men really can’t “think like a woman”, then they desperately need women beside them who can handle these difficult situations in an appropriate manner and minister effectively to these people.

It reminds me of when I was in high school and the only options presented to girls as possible carrers were secretarial work, teaching or nursing. We didn’t consider that we could be lawyers, bank managers, engineers, mechanics because it was not modelled or suggested to us. Probably it would have been said that women (and men) were perfectly happy with the choices they had before them and if anyone had thoughts otherwise, they would have been scorned and treated as traitors to their gender. What a shame !

Donna