Comments on: Is a Woman’s Value Based On the Shape of Her Body? http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/ Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:37:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Liz http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-2/#comment-94601 Liz Mon, 26 Sep 2011 04:36:06 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-94601 Hi JeanneClare Thank you for sharing your story. Sadly, it is not an isolated case and it is not unusual that it would still bother you. So much of this sort of thinking permeates many churches and individuals' lives and people don't realise how ungodly it is and what long-lasting effects it has. May it help you to know that there are many who do not share that kind of reasoning and attitude towards women and hopefully you have met some men who are not so pre-occupied with how women look and see the real person inside. It is stories like yours which keep us going with trying to help people see things differently. A few statements can damage a person for a long time. It is always better to read what God has said about the people he has created (women and men) and keep reminding ourselves how precious we are to him. Hi JeanneClare

Thank you for sharing your story. Sadly, it is not an isolated case and it is not unusual that it would still bother you. So much of this sort of thinking permeates many churches and individuals’ lives and people don’t realise how ungodly it is and what long-lasting effects it has.

May it help you to know that there are many who do not share that kind of reasoning and attitude towards women and hopefully you have met some men who are not so pre-occupied with how women look and see the real person inside.

It is stories like yours which keep us going with trying to help people see things differently. A few statements can damage a person for a long time. It is always better to read what God has said about the people he has created (women and men) and keep reminding ourselves how precious we are to him.

]]> By: jeanneclare http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-2/#comment-94599 jeanneclare Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:03:34 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-94599 Well, here's what I'm dealing with. Though my father has been dead for over 20 years, I remember him looking at other women fairly often. When I was 21, while we were driving in the car, he asked me to tell my sister-in-law, who was very pretty (and my age), that he thought she was beautiful. "Would you do that for me?" He asked. I felt enraged. What kind of a thing is that to say to your daughter? To this day, I don't know if I said to him "why don't you tell my mother she's beautiful?" or if I just seethed in silence. Actually, I do remember telling him that she had had two abortions and a bout with syphillis, which was true. He then asked me if she might need someone to talk to--whatever the hell that meant. I asked him, "why?" He was a cop, not a psychologist. He didn't feel the need to answer my question. He just used silence as if to indicate my comments were never heard or never had any weight. When I was in my 20s, he asked me "see if you can get your mother to lose weight." Even though he was involved in the Charismatic renewal for 15 years, was part of a prayer group, never missed church on Sunday, religious statues, crucifixes, and prayer cards everywhere in the home, my memories of him are of someone who was creepy, who looked at woman as if they were only supposed to be physically attractive; that determines her value. Not very Christlike in my opinion. I'm 50 years old, and this still bothers me. Well, here’s what I’m dealing with. Though my father has been dead for over 20 years, I remember him looking at other women fairly often. When I was 21, while we were driving in the car, he asked me to tell my sister-in-law, who was very pretty (and my age), that he thought she was beautiful. “Would you do that for me?” He asked. I felt enraged. What kind of a thing is that to say to your daughter? To this day, I don’t know if I said to him “why don’t you tell my mother she’s beautiful?” or if I just seethed in silence. Actually, I do remember telling him that she had had two abortions and a bout with syphillis, which was true. He then asked me if she might need someone to talk to–whatever the hell that meant. I asked him, “why?” He was a cop, not a psychologist. He didn’t feel the need to answer my question. He just used silence as if to indicate my comments were never heard or never had any weight. When I was in my 20s, he asked me “see if you can get your mother to lose weight.”

Even though he was involved in the Charismatic renewal for 15 years, was part of a prayer group, never missed church on Sunday, religious statues, crucifixes, and prayer cards everywhere in the home, my memories of him are of someone who was creepy, who looked at woman as if they were only supposed to be physically attractive; that determines her value. Not very Christlike in my opinion.

I’m 50 years old, and this still bothers me.

]]> By: candytoosweet http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-2/#comment-87400 candytoosweet Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:33:11 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-87400 As long as our culture equates less clothing with sexual availability, men without sexual morals will pester women with sexual advances. It's not a question of maturity, it's a question of having morals. Or perhaps having morals is a sign of having maturity. As long as our culture equates less clothing with sexual availability, men without sexual morals will pester women with sexual advances. It’s not a question of maturity, it’s a question of having morals. Or perhaps having morals is a sign of having maturity.

]]> By: jlp http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-2/#comment-87399 jlp Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:51:08 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-87399 Another thing Christina - our culture encourages men to be sexual predators. As a result females, especially young ones have to do everything they can to protect themselves. Protect yourself every way you can sexually, whether by dress or or by safety measures or by disassociating yourself from sexually aggressive men. It's an unfortunate (and sinful) part of life. Another thing Christina – our culture encourages men to be sexual predators. As a result females, especially young ones have to do everything they can to protect themselves. Protect yourself every way you can sexually, whether by dress or or by safety measures or by disassociating yourself from sexually aggressive men. It’s an unfortunate (and sinful) part of life.

]]> By: jlp http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-2/#comment-87398 jlp Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:12:06 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-87398 What's difficult Christina - is that in the western world (Europe and North America) some men feel that if a woman dresses with tight or revealing clothes that she is inviting them to look at her body or that she is willing to have sex with them. If you lived in a tribe around the Amazon river where no one where wears clothes you wouldn't find any men with that attitude. It's a cultural thing. And unfortunately in our western culture that's the attitude. It doesn't mean the woman who wears tight or revealing clothes wants to draw sexual attention to herself or that she is willing to go to bed with any man who wants her, but that is the perception of some men in our culture. That's why dressing modestly protects you (partially), because it sends a signal to men that you don't want sexual attention. In our society young women are encouraged to wear tight and revealing clothes. Women who do are praised and glorified. But the negative side of this is the unwanted staring, touching and sexual advances that the young women receive as a result of this. What’s difficult Christina – is that in the western world (Europe and North America) some men feel that if a woman dresses with tight or revealing clothes that she is inviting them to look at her body or that she is willing to have sex with them. If you lived in a tribe around the Amazon river where no one where wears clothes you wouldn’t find any men with that attitude. It’s a cultural thing. And unfortunately in our western culture that’s the attitude. It doesn’t mean the woman who wears tight or revealing clothes wants to draw sexual attention to herself or that she is willing to go to bed with any man who wants her, but that is the perception of some men in our culture. That’s why dressing modestly protects you (partially), because it sends a signal to men that you don’t want sexual attention.

In our society young women are encouraged to wear tight and revealing clothes. Women who do are praised and glorified. But the negative side of this is the unwanted staring, touching and sexual advances that the young women receive as a result of this.

]]> By: faith http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-2/#comment-87396 faith Sat, 27 Sep 2008 22:59:05 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-87396 Christina, i hear your pain at the way things are and have experience similar things. this is a very wacked out world over-focused on sexuality or abstaining from it--either way it is wacky and one way women are depersonalized. while you may dress carefully, the unwanted advances and gazes still come. I get that--that is not your fault. it's really about the ones being inappropriate... you are not bad because you are pretty. learn to use your voice... ask God for what to say to the ones who are problematic. develop your own sense of style that is modest and reflects you but you don't have to be a bag lady. Again ask God for help you. tell yourself that you are not responsible for their behavior and that you are bright, intelligent and talented and God has a purpose for you. Again, you are not bad or causing the problem because of who you are--the men who are obscene need to take responsibility for their actions. Christina, i hear your pain at the way things are and have experience similar things. this is a very wacked out world over-focused on sexuality or abstaining from it–either way it is wacky and one way women are depersonalized.

while you may dress carefully, the unwanted advances and gazes still come. I get that–that is not your fault. it’s really about the ones being inappropriate… you are not bad because you are pretty.

learn to use your voice… ask God for what to say to the ones who are problematic. develop your own sense of style that is modest and reflects you but you don’t have to be a bag lady. Again ask God for help you. tell yourself that you are not responsible for their behavior and that you are bright, intelligent and talented and God has a purpose for you.

Again, you are not bad or causing the problem because of who you are–the men who are obscene need to take responsibility for their actions.

]]> By: jlp http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-2/#comment-87395 jlp Sat, 27 Sep 2008 21:34:28 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-87395 I'm overweight now. But when I was younger I wasn't and I had a very curvy figure. I was constantly being stared at and being approached sexually by men. I learned to dress modestly to protect myself. Dressing modestly is a way to tell men that you are off limits sexually. They need to understand that just because you have a curvy figure doesn't mean you you want to sleep with them, and the only way I've found to get that across is to dress modestly. Dressing modest is the way to get across the message "THIS BODY IS OFF LIMITS!" Of course, dressing modestly won't stop all staring and sexual advances. But it reduces it so that it makes life easier. In this world women have to protect themselves every way they can. I’m overweight now. But when I was younger I wasn’t and I had a very curvy figure. I was constantly being stared at and being approached sexually by men.

I learned to dress modestly to protect myself. Dressing modestly is a way to tell men that you are off limits sexually. They need to understand that just because you have a curvy figure doesn’t mean you you want to sleep with them, and the only way I’ve found to get that across is to dress modestly. Dressing modest is the way to get across the message “THIS BODY IS OFF LIMITS!”

Of course, dressing modestly won’t stop all staring and sexual advances. But it reduces it so that it makes life easier.

In this world women have to protect themselves every way they can.

]]> By: CHRISTINA http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-2/#comment-87394 CHRISTINA Sat, 27 Sep 2008 04:17:11 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-87394 HI..EVERYONE HERE HAS SOME REAL GOOD VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT..IM A VERY CURVY SHAPED WOMAN AND I NEED SOME SERIOUS HELP...PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS HARRASING ME ABOUT THE SHAPE OF MY BODY..FIRST OFF MEN ARE VERY PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO ME AND ALWAYS STARE AT MY BODY..AND PEOPLE HAVE TOLD ME THAT ITS MY PROBLEM WHEN THEY DO..BECAUSE OF WHAT IM WEARING. SO..HERE IN AMERICA..A WOMAN WITH A CURVY SHAPE CANT WEAR CERTAIN CLOTHS BECAUSE MEN ARENT MATURE ENOUGH TO HANDLE IT? IVE BEEN TOLD THEY ARE MEN.. ITS MY PROBLEM?AND WOMEN ARE EXTREMELY JEALOUS.. IVE BEEN HARRESSED SO BAD ON THE JOB THAT THESE TWO WOMEN WERE STARVING THESE BABIES IN MY PRIMARY CARE AT THIS CHILD CARE..MY FAMILY THINKS ITS MY PROBLEM..IVE BEEN TO COUNSELING..MY SELF-ESTEEM IS VERY LOW TO WHERE I DONT WANT MEET NEW PEOPLE OR MAKE NEW FRIENDS..CAUSE SOMEONE ALWAYS HAS A PROBLEM EXCEPT MAYBE TWO PEOPLE IN MY LIFE..THIS IS A SAD WORLD WE LIVE IN IF PEOPLE ARE JUDGED ACCORDING TO THE SHAPE OF THEIR BODY..IM ALWAYS ASKED DO I SLEEP AROUND..WHY DO YOU WEAR YOUR CLOTHS SO TIGHT IF YOU DONT SLEEP AROUND? I NEED TO TALK TO NICE PEOPLE LIKE YOU... HI..EVERYONE HERE HAS SOME REAL GOOD
VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT..IM A VERY CURVY SHAPED WOMAN
AND I NEED SOME SERIOUS HELP…PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS
HARRASING ME ABOUT THE SHAPE OF MY BODY..FIRST OFF
MEN ARE VERY PHYSICALLY ATTRACTED TO ME AND ALWAYS
STARE AT MY BODY..AND PEOPLE HAVE TOLD ME THAT ITS
MY PROBLEM WHEN THEY DO..BECAUSE OF WHAT IM WEARING.
SO..HERE IN AMERICA..A WOMAN WITH A CURVY SHAPE
CANT WEAR CERTAIN CLOTHS BECAUSE MEN ARENT MATURE
ENOUGH TO HANDLE IT? IVE BEEN TOLD THEY ARE MEN..
ITS MY PROBLEM?AND WOMEN ARE EXTREMELY JEALOUS..
IVE BEEN HARRESSED SO BAD ON THE JOB THAT THESE
TWO WOMEN WERE STARVING THESE BABIES IN MY PRIMARY
CARE AT THIS CHILD CARE..MY FAMILY THINKS ITS
MY PROBLEM..IVE BEEN TO COUNSELING..MY SELF-ESTEEM IS
VERY LOW TO WHERE I DONT WANT MEET NEW PEOPLE OR
MAKE NEW FRIENDS..CAUSE SOMEONE ALWAYS HAS A PROBLEM
EXCEPT MAYBE TWO PEOPLE IN MY LIFE..THIS IS A SAD
WORLD WE LIVE IN IF PEOPLE ARE JUDGED ACCORDING TO
THE SHAPE OF THEIR BODY..IM ALWAYS ASKED DO I SLEEP
AROUND..WHY DO YOU WEAR YOUR CLOTHS SO TIGHT IF YOU
DONT SLEEP AROUND? I NEED TO TALK TO NICE PEOPLE
LIKE YOU…

]]> By: Trevor http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2007/08/is-a-womans-value-based-on-the-shape-of-her-body/comment-page-1/#comment-87189 Trevor Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:10:20 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=148#comment-87189 Yes, I too thank you for the link to that Quadrant article. While it's pretty heavy reading it underscores the causes for concern for young women growing up in our overly sexualized culture. For most young women there are no outside points of reference to broaden their understanding of what could otherwise be. That's extremely saddening and we need to find ways to correct that imbalance. Society tends to park the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, dealing with the damage done. Not always very effectively. Surely, within the church we at least can offer redemptive strategies that will showcase superior behavioral expectations and alternatives before the event. Let me hasten to add that a great deal needs to be done to encourage young men away from seeing women only as sexual objects. Women are clearly the victims here. Any movement in this direction would be most encouraging and the article seems to suggest that such movements are not only emerging but gaining momentum. That's good news. Anything that helps young men and women to resist the extremely unhealthy aspects of sexual expression found to be so rife in our everyday community life are to be applauded. Yes, I too thank you for the link to that Quadrant article. While it’s pretty heavy reading it underscores the causes for concern for young women growing up in our overly sexualized culture. For most young women there are no outside points of reference to broaden their understanding of what could otherwise be. That’s extremely saddening and we need to find ways to correct that imbalance.

Society tends to park the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, dealing with the damage done. Not always very effectively. Surely, within the church we at least can offer redemptive strategies that will showcase superior behavioral expectations and alternatives before the event. Let me hasten to add that a great deal needs to be done to encourage young men away from seeing women only as sexual objects. Women are clearly the victims here.

Any movement in this direction would be most encouraging and the article seems to suggest that such movements are not only emerging but gaining momentum. That’s good news. Anything that helps young men and women to resist the extremely unhealthy aspects of sexual expression found to be so rife in our everyday community life are to be applauded.

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