The CBE Scroll

Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality

Notes from the 10th International Conference

Filed under: CBE
Written by: on Saturday, August 11, 2007

Greetings, bloggers, from the Denver CBE Conference!

First, a little introduction is in order. Hello, I’m Rob.

And I’m an egalitarian.

Until now, I’ve only supported The Scroll from behind the curtain with occasional technical issues. Many kudos to Marissa, Megan, and Will for their dedication to the blog! But now, I’ve been asked to contribute since my wife and I are attending the Denver conference. So, if you’ll humor my clunkiness, I’ll post some of my observations.

We got to the conference in time for the evening dinner. We met some really interesting people at our table from all walks of life, one of whom was an Episcopalian bishop from Burundi, Africa. Mr. Simeon jokingly asked me how many cows I paid my in-laws for my wife as a dowry! We discussed how much of Africa is still very stuck in old-world traditions. He told me that he is convinced that the church doesn’t grow without the co-leadership of women.

After dinner was a lecture by Roger Olson, author of How to Be Evangelical without Being Conservative. Olson ascribes to the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, which uses four sources for a theological framework: scripture, tradition, reason, and experience. His talk tonight revolved around the latter. Olson considers himself a ‘post-conservative’ having attended a church led by a woman pastor for several years. He joked that while his church experience might suggest otherwise, they do in fact believe in the ordination of men.

He spoke mainly about the need for interdependence between women and men. From a Christian perspective, Olson says gender differences should be ontological, not behavioral and cultural. Such artificial differences are the result of a breakdown in healthy interdependence.

In Olson’s experience, a church for women is not inherently better than a church for men. The better solution is a church for both women and men, wherein the leadership opportunities are shared openly with those that are gifted. After all, truth – not office or role – is the ultimate authority.

He said that when true interdependence breaks down, one gender tends to be marginalized and withdraws from participation. Olson offered a case in point as many men today are not actively seeking leadership positions in church.

One of Olson’s analogies I appreciated was in describing true Christian interdependence as a ‘sibling solidarity.’ If we begin to see each other as fellow sisters and brothers in Christ, then we can more truly bind together in an interdependent community.

This first day was a wonderful start! I’m very excited to be attending. Stay tuned for more updates tomorrow…

8 Comments »

Comment by makeesha

August 11, 2007 @ 9:45 am

Oh no! How did I miss this? We’re only an hour from Denver and were actually in Denver on Wednesday. Bummer. Oh well, even though I’m jealous, it sounds like a great time – enjoy!

Comment by JLP

August 11, 2007 @ 12:43 pm

Rob, you said something I need clarification on.

He said that when true interdependence breaks down, one gender tends to be marginalized and withdraws from participation. Olson offered a case in point as many men today are not actively seeking leadership positions in church.

Does Olson believe men are not seeking leadership positions in church because men are being marginalized, and therefore are not actively seeking leadership positions?

Comment by Rob

August 11, 2007 @ 11:12 pm

Yes, JLP (see comment 63237), that’s what I inferred, that men’s passivity in church could be an example of their feeling marginalized.

Olson seemed to be painting an analogy in reverse. Imagine a church world where the majority of leaders were women, where men weren’t involved in ministry. Such an environment would inherently be mostly for women and the men could feel marginalized. Yet, that’s what has happened to women all along.

His point was that either scenario is not beneficial to the marginalized gender. The ideal situation is for equal leadership, so that both genders feel balanced attention.

Comment by JLP

August 12, 2007 @ 3:19 am

Thanks for clearing that up. That makes it much clearer.

Comment by Rob

August 12, 2007 @ 8:33 am

Mary Ann, I lost your comment by accident. If you could repost for everyone, that would be great!

Comment by MARY ANN

August 12, 2007 @ 4:21 pm

Hi Rob, thanks for blogging! Well done!

This was my first CBE conference as well, and it has just been so wonderful. I have learned so many new things, been so convicted by so many things and inspired in so many ways… I just don’t know where to start!

I took copious notes during the conference and hope to post most of them. I have the detailed notes from Olson’s message as well as Debbie Gill’s online already. Please see my web blog here for these notes.

Comment by PS

August 13, 2007 @ 12:24 pm

I think that there is a danger in men withdrawing if the women seem to be too much in charge. Women, however, don’t seem to shy away in the reverse situation as much. I see this as the men’s problem, what they lose out on, because they are welcome to participate.

However, what is the real case, historically? It used to be that the pastor did everything, so the men often weren’t leading all that much anyway. And, when the councils were all men, were these positions really active or just nominal leadership positions? I’m sure that varied, but in some cases, things were done the way they were done for years, so what leadership was needed anyway?

But behind the scenes… well, haven’t the women always been active in the churches? Who ran the kitchen? Did the fund raisers? Taught the children? Organized the cleaning? Set up for communion? Worked in the office? The women might not have had the titles, but they did the work, and that carries power.

I’ve always felt that the ‘Ladies Aid’ societies, etc. were a way for the women to have power because they weren’t allowed to be ‘the church.’ Much of the work of the church, such as money for missions and helping neighbors in need was done through the women’s groups.

I suppose I’m greatly over-generalizing… yes. But, I think it is valid to point out that there are different kinds of power and office.

The church I attend has had women officers, preachers, presidents, committee chairs, pastors, etc. for at least twenty-five years. I can honestly say that the lay leadership is really healthy. There are quite a number of very active lay men and women leaders. There seems to be mutual respect. And, the leaders are picked because of their abilities, not their gender.

Comment by makeesha

August 13, 2007 @ 2:19 pm

I think there are so many consequences and spill-overs when justice isn’t being done, which is why you can’t just look at one small cross section of an issue and expect to come to any good conclusions or solutions.

One thing I’ve observed as co-‘pastor’ with my husband in our community of faith is that most of the people who come and the people we are in the most contact with are not ‘church bubble’ Christians. They are typically young, and either unchurched or disenfranchised with the institutional church. Interestingly, we don’t experience the ‘overpopulation’ of women that so many in evangelicalism are talking about. We have an equal balance in leadership between men and women, singles and married persons and we have a pretty equal balance in attendance and active participation, even leaning toward more guys, which runs contrary to the ‘lack of male presence’ problem I hear pastors complaining about.

My theory is that it’s because our people either ‘don’t know better’ because they don’t come from the church world or are choosing to intentionally reject the gender biases and stereotypes and roles handed down to them in their past.

Whatever it is, we don’t experience the same types of problems that the complementarian, conservative evangelical churches we know are experiencing. And I truly believe a huge part of it is that gender is essentially a non-issue with us and there are subsequent ‘trickle down’ affects that we see because of that.

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