The CBE Scroll

Comment by Donna

December 4, 2007 @ 12:48 pm

The body is what is seen by sighted people, and maybe here lies a clue! Sight-impaired people have a distinct advantage in that they are not affected by what people look like, and even the expression on a face is lost to the blind person.

You make some interesting and good observations, Liz. I would add that for a blind person, the voice is extremely important.

God chose to give us a human body for our limited time on earth, so it must be a good thing in itself.

Scripture says that we have this treasure in earthen vessels. What is the treasure? The light of the glory of God in the face of Christ. I think that you make good points about how people see Christ through us, even though we are imperfect physically. We hope that our outward appearance will not detract from the glory of God residing in our earthen vessels. Thank you for sharing the thought, ‘our bodies are vehicles through which the light of God can shine.’

‘But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.’ (2 Corinthians 4:7)

However, I must disagree with you about the body if you are saying that we will not have bodies in eternity. I am pretty sure that you are not saying that we won’t have bodies in heaven - we just won’t have these earthly bodies. It seems that you are talking only of our earthly bodies, subject to death, decay, corruption, and even misinterpretation. So yes, we will be rid of those bodies someday. But, we shall be raised incorruptible. The seed of our bodies that is planted in the ground at death will be raised to life someday when Christ comes.

‘By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.’ (1 Corinthians 6:14)

‘The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.’ (1 Corinthians 15:41-43)

What a beautiful mystery this is! I know that you know this and were focusing on this temporary housing we are in.

Then, we have a human being interceding for us before the Father. He did not give up his resurrected human body, even though he returned to his place at the right hand of the Father. He is the eternal God-man.

‘Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.’ (Hebrews 7:25)

Hey, thank you for stirring these thoughts up. God bless, and please take care.

Comment by Liz

December 4, 2007 @ 6:56 pm

Yes, Donna, I was referring only to our temporary life on earth because the previous discussion was about objectification of the body and related issues.

Our physical bodies can be a help or a hindrance and the odd thing is that one person may find something offensive which another finds encouraging. We can’t be ‘all things to all people’ but as you have said earlier, we need to be sensitive to God and leave the rest in his hands.

Comment by Will

December 5, 2007 @ 8:50 am

God chose to give us a human body for our limited time on earth, so it must be a good thing in itself. However, the body has been affected by sin just like everything else, and as we age the beauty and innocence of our bodies gets tarnished either from sin or decay. Throughout Scripture, the body is described as a house for the real person inside - a temporary place of residence while on this earth.

More than just a container for the person, though, or something tarnished that we wear around for the duration of our lives, hasn’t something important about the body been said in Christ’s being made incarnate (en-fleshed), dying (flesh broken), and being raised again (bodily, in the flesh)?

I would agree that at times it is a help, and at others, a hindrance, but nevertheless, it would seem that the body is mighty important to the Christian as related to Christ and its being his main vehicle of entering this world and saving.

So, could a proper theology of the body (as discussed in the previous thread) also be properly Christological?

Comment by jlp

December 6, 2007 @ 4:40 pm

Today I heard a woman talking about letting her three daughters watch the Victoria’s Secret show with her and how afterwards they asked their father if their mother looked like the models when her clothes were off. She responded, ‘Of course I do!’ Later she told us how she saved the show because her teenage son likes to see the women.

Basically, her daughters are getting the message that their body is their worth, and her son is getting the message that a woman’s body is her worth.

She told this story in front of a whole table of seventh and eighth grade girls. I wonder if this didn’t convey to them that their body is their worth.

I cannot tell you how saddened I was about this.

Comment by Theo

December 6, 2007 @ 9:40 pm

God chose to give us a human body for our limited time on earth, so it must be a good thing in itself. However, the body has been affected by sin just like everything else, and as we age the beauty and innocence of our bodies gets tarnished either from sin or decay. Throughout Scripture, the body is described as a house for the real person inside - a temporary place of residence while on this earth.

Well, this isn’t exactly what Scripture says. God has created us whole, embodied persons who function physically, biologically, emotionally, logically, aesthetically, etc. The body is not merely a house for the ‘real person inside;’ this is too close to Gnosticism for my comfort. As whole persons we partake of creation, fall, and redemption in Jesus Christ. At the eschaton we will be resurrected as whole persons.

Sight-impaired people have a distinct advantage in that they are not affected by what people look like, and even the expression on a face is lost to the blind person.

It’s not clear how the inability to see facial expression is an advantage, given that so much of communication occurs through visual cues of all sorts. Of course we all know that the blind have to develop their other senses to compensate for their inability to see, but even for them coming to know the ‘real person’ necessarily entails hearing, feeling, and smelling - all of which assume that the other person is embodied.

Yes, Liz, I agree that we ought to look beyond appearances, but I think there’s another way to make the same point that is indebted more to the Bible and less to Plato.

Comment by tiro

December 7, 2007 @ 10:26 am

See comment 75519.

While I agree that we are whole persons consisting of body, soul, and spirit, I do not see that viewing the body as the vessel and temple for soul and spirit to be Gnosticism. God does not look on the outside but on the heart. What goes into the body is not as important as what comes out of the heart/soul. We are viewed as temples for God to dwell in rather than a building. Women are viewed as weaker vessels than men, which differentiates between being a weaker person (soul and spirit). And in the end, we will get new spiritual bodies not tarnished by sin and death.

Comment by jlp

December 7, 2007 @ 3:44 pm

‘”Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these defile you. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile you; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile you.’ (Matthew 15:16-20)

Comment by jlp

December 7, 2007 @ 4:08 pm

Tiro, you said:

And in the end we will get new spiritual bodies not tarnished by sin and death.

I’m looking forward to heaven, where women’s and girl’s bodies will not be sexually objectified. I’m sick of this world’s sexualization of the female body.

Comment by Liz

December 14, 2007 @ 5:13 am

Hi Theo (see comment 75519). I certainly didn’t have Plato in mind when I wrote the comments about the body. I was thinking more of the Scriptures which talk about our body as a ‘tent’ which will one day be folded up. Also the thought that our inward person can be growing and being renewed while the outward ‘body’ is deteriorating daily.

However, we are housed in mortal bodies while on this earth (only God knows exactly what our new bodies will be like) and because of sin and shame physical appearances can sometimes be a stumbling block or be used in wrong ways.

Another slant on the body according to the apostle Paul is that he is hard on himself physically to keep his passions (of all kinds) under control and gives the examples of a soldier, an athlete and a farmer. I believe that these analogies apply to women as well as men even though in those times only men were in those capacities.