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	<title>Comments on: God&#8217;s design ?</title>
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	<description>Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality</description>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-2/#comment-86657</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hello, once again, everyone.  I&#039;ve been busy working on article that responds to Gary Crampton&#039;s &quot;The Bible and Women Teachers,&quot; which has required careful research and thought before I get it published.  And hello to you, Maureen, from Colorado.  Some years ago, I was involved, twice, in trying to start an Amway business, but failed.  For a man, I just didn&#039;t &quot;have a head&quot; for business.  Though I realize a large number of Christian were involved in Amway, I never knew before now that it had Mormon origins.  Interesting.  Anyway, having studied philosophy, I was thinking on a little ditty that addressed the mind/brain issue:  &quot;What is mind?  Never matter.  What is matter?  Oh, never mind!&quot;  And it brought to mind what Paul said in Phil. 2:5-11 about all Christians having &quot;the mind of Christ&quot; in all their dealings with one another.  This directive negates, in an important way, I think, this nonsense some Christians have promoted about different kinds of brains and minds men and women are supposed to have; we&#039;re to have a common mind--the mind of Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, once again, everyone.  I&#8217;ve been busy working on article that responds to Gary Crampton&#8217;s &#8220;The Bible and Women Teachers,&#8221; which has required careful research and thought before I get it published.  And hello to you, Maureen, from Colorado.  Some years ago, I was involved, twice, in trying to start an Amway business, but failed.  For a man, I just didn&#8217;t &#8220;have a head&#8221; for business.  Though I realize a large number of Christian were involved in Amway, I never knew before now that it had Mormon origins.  Interesting.  Anyway, having studied philosophy, I was thinking on a little ditty that addressed the mind/brain issue:  &#8220;What is mind?  Never matter.  What is matter?  Oh, never mind!&#8221;  And it brought to mind what Paul said in Phil. 2:5-11 about all Christians having &#8220;the mind of Christ&#8221; in all their dealings with one another.  This directive negates, in an important way, I think, this nonsense some Christians have promoted about different kinds of brains and minds men and women are supposed to have; we&#8217;re to have a common mind&#8211;the mind of Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-1/#comment-86656</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 03:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=214#comment-86656</guid>
		<description>I did a quick seach on google, Faith, and it looks like the Australian revivalist you are referring to is Don Stanton, Director of Maranatha Revival Crusade, as Trevor has indicated.  I can&#039;t recall ever having heard any of his teachings, myself, and thankfully not, by the sound of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did a quick seach on google, Faith, and it looks like the Australian revivalist you are referring to is Don Stanton, Director of Maranatha Revival Crusade, as Trevor has indicated.  I can&#8217;t recall ever having heard any of his teachings, myself, and thankfully not, by the sound of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-1/#comment-86653</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=214#comment-86653</guid>
		<description>Faith that Australian revivalist you are talking about may well be Don Stanton. If it is the same fellow he specialized in end time, prophetic insights into current events. We had no idea though that he may have been conducting ministry in the U.S. He was very popular (in Australia) in conservative circles and produced a topical booklet on various prophetic teachings that was printed in India. I think that he was a former missionary in India. He&#039;d be quite old now I would think and definately hierarchical and outspoken in his male/female views of the church and home. He would link &#039;feminism&#039; of any description with prophetic issues and sound dire warnings to the church to avoid any such leanings. If it is the same person, or a relative of the same persuasion (son maybe?) then I can understand how grievous such strong teaching would be to women who were sensing a call to Christian ministry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faith that Australian revivalist you are talking about may well be Don Stanton. If it is the same fellow he specialized in end time, prophetic insights into current events. We had no idea though that he may have been conducting ministry in the U.S. He was very popular (in Australia) in conservative circles and produced a topical booklet on various prophetic teachings that was printed in India. I think that he was a former missionary in India. He&#8217;d be quite old now I would think and definately hierarchical and outspoken in his male/female views of the church and home. He would link &#8216;feminism&#8217; of any description with prophetic issues and sound dire warnings to the church to avoid any such leanings. If it is the same person, or a relative of the same persuasion (son maybe?) then I can understand how grievous such strong teaching would be to women who were sensing a call to Christian ministry.</p>
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		<title>By: faith</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-1/#comment-86652</link>
		<dc:creator>faith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=214#comment-86652</guid>
		<description>oh, byt the way, the revivalist, is from australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh, byt the way, the revivalist, is from australia.</p>
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		<title>By: faith</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-1/#comment-86651</link>
		<dc:creator>faith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=214#comment-86651</guid>
		<description>liz and maureen, have you ever heard of a revivalist by the name of doug stanton?  he has been teaching in my location, Minnesota, for many years.  he is heavy on headship teachings.  he is the source of much grief for women who seek to be pastors.  They can preach but only under their husbands authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>liz and maureen, have you ever heard of a revivalist by the name of doug stanton?  he has been teaching in my location, Minnesota, for many years.  he is heavy on headship teachings.  he is the source of much grief for women who seek to be pastors.  They can preach but only under their husbands authority.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-1/#comment-86650</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, we visited Hillsong some years back so understand what you mean. They have a program which airs on national TV and only recently someone noticed that Brian Houston invited Bobbie to tell everyone what their stance was on the place of women and she outlined the usual &#039;headship&#039; teaching. This is hearsay but from everything we&#039;ve read or heard from Hillsong it doesn&#039;t surprise me.

We have friends who still attend this church in spite of all the hype and upmarket presentation. Seems God works in spite of it all.

There is a CBE chapter in Melbourne and I will email a contact person for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, we visited Hillsong some years back so understand what you mean. They have a program which airs on national TV and only recently someone noticed that Brian Houston invited Bobbie to tell everyone what their stance was on the place of women and she outlined the usual &#8216;headship&#8217; teaching. This is hearsay but from everything we&#8217;ve read or heard from Hillsong it doesn&#8217;t surprise me.</p>
<p>We have friends who still attend this church in spite of all the hype and upmarket presentation. Seems God works in spite of it all.</p>
<p>There is a CBE chapter in Melbourne and I will email a contact person for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-1/#comment-86649</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you Faith and Liz for your kind welcomes.  I certainly will continue to share.

Not sure whether the Amway founders&#039; background was Mormon or not, Liz. Some of the books I read and tapes I listened to seemed to endorse Christianity and Mormonism as though they were one in the same, so you could be right.  There was certainly a lot of Christians in the business and I actually came to the Lord, myself, during the time I was involved. 

You are right about their meetings being similar to many church services.  After I got saved, my &#039;upline&#039; as they are known, took us along to Hills Christian Life Centre (now Hillsong) in Sydney and I remember thinking, at the time, just how much like an Amway seminar the church was!  

I ended up worshipping and serving in this church for many years and eventually extricated myself from Amway altogether, but unfortunately, this particular church promoted many of the same gender stereotypes and sold similar gender biased self help books just like you said. One good thing about this church though was that they were all for women pastors and women in leadership - unfortunately, you just had to look like a Revlon advertisement doing it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Faith and Liz for your kind welcomes.  I certainly will continue to share.</p>
<p>Not sure whether the Amway founders&#8217; background was Mormon or not, Liz. Some of the books I read and tapes I listened to seemed to endorse Christianity and Mormonism as though they were one in the same, so you could be right.  There was certainly a lot of Christians in the business and I actually came to the Lord, myself, during the time I was involved. </p>
<p>You are right about their meetings being similar to many church services.  After I got saved, my &#8216;upline&#8217; as they are known, took us along to Hills Christian Life Centre (now Hillsong) in Sydney and I remember thinking, at the time, just how much like an Amway seminar the church was!  </p>
<p>I ended up worshipping and serving in this church for many years and eventually extricated myself from Amway altogether, but unfortunately, this particular church promoted many of the same gender stereotypes and sold similar gender biased self help books just like you said. One good thing about this church though was that they were all for women pastors and women in leadership &#8211; unfortunately, you just had to look like a Revlon advertisement doing it!</p>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-1/#comment-86646</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Welcome Maureen. So glad you venture out to write and please continue. It is so helpful to us all as well as yourself to express these truths and experiences. We live in Australia where the traditional roles are very much taught and practised in most bible believing/conservative churches and we have felt so alone at times but the CBE community is a wonderful fellowship which transcends all cultures as true fellowship in Christ should do.

Interesting comment about Amway which from our understanding was from Mormon roots (correct me if I&#039;m wrong) We find most of these groups still promote the gender stereotypes. In Australia, Amway is now known as &#039;the business&#039; by adherants and their huge meetings are similar to church services and have Christian pastors addressing them...what a mixture! The&#039; business&#039; promotes certain books among their clientele and these include gender biased ones among the self-help ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome Maureen. So glad you venture out to write and please continue. It is so helpful to us all as well as yourself to express these truths and experiences. We live in Australia where the traditional roles are very much taught and practised in most bible believing/conservative churches and we have felt so alone at times but the CBE community is a wonderful fellowship which transcends all cultures as true fellowship in Christ should do.</p>
<p>Interesting comment about Amway which from our understanding was from Mormon roots (correct me if I&#8217;m wrong) We find most of these groups still promote the gender stereotypes. In Australia, Amway is now known as &#8216;the business&#8217; by adherants and their huge meetings are similar to church services and have Christian pastors addressing them&#8230;what a mixture! The&#8217; business&#8217; promotes certain books among their clientele and these include gender biased ones among the self-help ones.</p>
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		<title>By: faith</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2008/05/gods-design/comment-page-1/#comment-86643</link>
		<dc:creator>faith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 03:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>hi Maureen, you are very articulate and have much to say.  keep sharing your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi Maureen, you are very articulate and have much to say.  keep sharing your thoughts.</p>
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