These posts by Nur-el-Masih Ben Haq appear to be part of a larger conversation between Christian/Islamic theology and make for an interesting read.

However, I don’t believe orthodox biblical Christian thought would speak of God ‘giving’ Jesus a soul. I think Christian theology tends to focus on the eternal nature of Jesus who existed in perfect unity/equality with the Father before the existence of what we think of as time.

Perhaps other posters may wish to comment on the notion of God giving Jesus a soul.

Also the first post of has several declarative statements which I believe could be challenged or at least the term Soul seems quite odd. For example the NT texts cited to support #2 in my mind don’t speak of Jesus as the Soul of God.

2.God-the-SON, means the SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God inside His (GOD’S) WORD, which was physically born as a human body. (Col. 1:15, 19; John 1:1, 14-18, 17:5; Phil. 2:5-7; Mt. 1:18; Isa. 9:6; John 14:10; Pls. 82:6)

3. God-the-HOLY-SPIRIT, means just SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God, i.e. when, or as, not inside any bodily form.

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We egals get painted as unorthodox by our brothers/sisters on the comp side so it seems important to speak to this post – or at least ask for clarification. Please know I am not trying to be argumentative, merely pointing out what appear to be odd expressions.

You mentioned the equation: 1 + 1 + 1 = 3

The best I heard it described is that for the Trinity the equation is NOT 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 but rather:

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

It’s a kind of hyper reality I suppose, not ours. We see exponentiation in the Kingdom of God, such as those who have will be given even more and those who don’t have will have what they have taken away from them . . . This isn’t our (human) law of understanding or way of existence.

I think most regrettably some Christians (unconsciously, I assume) can’t fully accept Jesus IS God.

I know that sounds incredible, but at its heart I think that’s the problem. Some form of Arianism or Semi-Arianism from what I understand continues to spring up in the Church from time to time.

The Trinity is to me the greatest of all Christian mysteries . . . Therefore, it’s not easy to comprehend because of our limited minds and natures.

That doesn’t excuse however a basic, foundational, traditional understanding of our faith (most especially by those in leadership positions).

It just continues to amaze me that those who believe they are believing in what traditionally has been taught about the nature of God aren’t doing that yet think they are being ever so traditional . . . And then they go on and attack those for not holding on to the traditional faith??

The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was born in a pagan community that believed in three Gods: Al-lat, Manat, and Uzza. Prophet Muhammad and, therefore, Islam initially declared it recognition of the deityship of these pagan Gods (or Goddess) via a supposed Allah’s revelation to Muhammad that, according to ‘hoarded’ Hadith, went thus:

Qur?an 53:13, ?And he (Muhammad) saw him (angel Gabriel) yet

Another time.

14. By the lote-tree at the furthest boundary.

15. Near unto which is the Garden of Abode.

16. When that which covers the tree does cover it.

17. The sight turned not aside, nor did it extend beyond the

Limit.

18. Indeed he saw some of the greater signs of his Lord

19. Have ye seen al-lat and Uzza?

20. And Manat the third one besides?

* These are the Exalted Gharaniq (Damsels)

* And verily their intercession (with Allah) is to be hoped

For?

When the pagan Arabs heard such a Qur’anic endorsement of their deities, they massively converted to Islam. But that the story of their conversion was so exaggerated that the Muslim refugees confidently returned home from Abyssinia (Ethiopia).

The returnee refugees and Muhammad himself were disappointed to discover that the story of the massive conversion was largely a hoax. The angry Muhammad then withdrew his recognition of the deityship of the Three Goddesses and blamed Satan for making him include in the recitation false words, ” *These are the Exalted Gharaniq. *And their intercession (with Allah) is to be hoped for”.

Thus Muhammad expunged these “Satanic Verses” (as they are now called by Muslim scholars) and replaced them with a supposed reaction from Allah:

21.”What! For you the *male sex, and for Him (Allah) the

Female?

22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

23. These are nothing but names which ye have devised, ye

And your fathers?”

(*Allah supposedly rejected the pagans’ recognition of Him, at this stage, as being the father of the three goddesses) See Hadith al-Gharaniq al-Ula gotten from al-Waqidi, ibn Hantab, Abu Jaafar Ibn at-Tabari etc for details.

I know many Muslim readers would dismiss this as lies because must of these sensitive issues are hidden away from them. But whoever cares to do research on this or ask renowned Islamic scholars will be shocked to discover that the “Satanic Verses” scandal is a historical fact.

In fact , the nature of the early chapters of the Qur’an tends to confirm the historicity of the “Satanic Verses” scandal for, as Encyclopedia Britanica 15 page 342 puts it, “(In the Qur’an) strangely enough, there is NO REFERENCE TO THE ONENESS OF GOD (The premier Islamic doctrine now) in these early chapters. According to one tradition, on one occasion Mohammed even acknowledged the relative authorities of three goddesses: Al-lat, Manat and Uzza, but later on abolished the passage in which the reference occurred” said the Encyclopedia

Thus Islam’s belated attacks on Christianity with respect to the TRINITY is just a cover-up to this scandal of an attempt to “Trinitinize” the three pagan Arab goddesses which (the attempt) failed.

Christian TRINITY does not imply three Gods at all. It is a logical and scientific phenomenon that expresses the three major ways that personifies Himself.

The greatest Christian Law is the perfect belief in the oneness of God (Mk. 12:28-32; 1 Cor. 8:3-6; Jms. 2:18-21).

Since in the Old Testament time God demonstrated His kind of “spirito- allotropy”: (Let US, OUR image, OUR likeness, one of US: Gen. 1:26, 3:22, Jer. 23:23), and also Qur’an 2:1, 6:9 ete.

In fact not only Muslims — Jehovah Witness and the Jews too should realize that the concept of “God-The-Son” scripturally predated the times of Jesus Christ (Pls. 82:6; John 10:34-38); likewise “God-The-Father” (Deut. 32:6); and ?God-the-Holy-Spirit? (Job 32:4, Pls 139:7-12).

God began by choosing a chaste woman, Mary (Maryam). To qualify her, He necessarily exalted her in advance ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION, for birth is the women’s GREATEST pride and, yet Mary would EXTRA-ORDINARILY give the birth that is the GREATEST of all times. See Luke 1:28, 30:34, 41-44, 48-49, and 54-55. Also says Qur’an 3:42, “….O Mary! Allah has CHOSEN thee, and PURIFIED thee, and PREFERRED thee ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION”.

After that, God settled His soul (Ruh) inside His word (Kalimat) which he had put in the womb of Mary, who had been spiritually qualified as we have seen earlier. That was how Mary conceived Jesus. That was to enable the divine attribute have human features through her for the humans to understand Him better (Hence only Jesus is Biblicaly and Qur’anically declared as GOD’s WORD and GOD’s RUH (Spirit): John 1:1, 14:8:23, Phl. 2:5-8; and the Qur’an 4:171, 2:252 etc. (By implication, Jesus’ flesh is not actually biological but God’s Word; similarly, his life is not actually human’s but from God’s own as we will see more later).

Therefore, even after his humanly birth, Jesus was declared as much superior to angels and, in fact, God said, “Let ALL God’s angels WORSHIP him (Jesus)” (Heb. 1:6; 1Pet. 3:22; Mat. 4:11), as was Adam, of course, in Qur’an 2:30-34.

Thus, apparently, Jesus was a human, the rationality and aim of his humanized birth. See Rom. 8:3-6; Heb. 2:16-18. Also, says Allah according to Qur’an 6:9, “Had We appointed an ANGEL our messenger, We ASSUREDLY had made him LIKE A MAN SO THAT HE MIGHT SPEAK TO (associate with) MEN….”

Muslims often cite John 5:30-31; Mark 13:32-33 and John 1428 etc as disproofs of Christ’s divinity. But, logically, these verses, rather than disprove Jesus’ divinity, expressed the anticipated and expected demonstrations of the character that was Jesus-in-exemplary-typical-human-nature and , therefore , in accordance with God’s programme as stated in the Qur’an 6:9 and:-

(1) Phil. 2:6, “Who (Jesus) being in very nature God, did NOT consider equality with God something to grasp, 7 But made himself NOTHING, taking the very nature of a SERVANT, being made in human likeness 8, and found in appearance as a MAN, he HUMBLED himself and became OBEDIENT to the death, even death in the cross”

(2) Heb. 2:16, “For surely it is NOT ANGELS that he (Jesus) helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 FOR THIS REASON HE (GOD) HAD TO MAKE HIM (JESUS) LIKE HIS BROTHERS IN EVERY WAY in order that……” (Compare Qur’an 6:9)

(3) Rom. 8:3, “(Jesus)….in the LIKENESS OF A SINFUL MAN……….”
So, in the light of these verses, it should be clear that Jesus’ humanized acts did not mean that he was actually a human being (John 8:23) but were the divinely designs that were to make Jesus not unnecessarily scare the humans but, rather be their SOURCE OF INSPIRATIONS.

In other words, if Jesus were to act God-the-father again even when haven purposely transformed into a man, the transformation would logically be nonsense.
The Holy Bible reveals relationship between Adam and Jesus thus, “The FIRST Adam became a LIVING SOUL, the LAST Adam (Jesus) a QUICKENING SPIRIT”, 1 Cor. 15:45. Therefore, to understand the nature of Jesus more, we must go back to the Adam’s case.

Thus, when God breathed life into Adam (Qur’an 38:73-78 and Gen. 2:7), he (God) declared him His (God’s) own IMAGE/LIKENESS (Gen. 2:7) or His VICEROY (Qur’an 2:30). Also, according to Qur’an 28:37-38, 15:39-44; 17:61-62; 7:11-13 and 2:34, Allah instructed ALL the angels to WORSHIP Adam on the ground that He (Allah) had breathed something of His SpIRIT into Adam for a soul (see Heb. 1:2-6, for the same instruction in respect of Jesus). In fact, according to these Qur’anic verses, Satan’s curse and demotion are God’s reaction to his (Satan’s) refusal to prostrate himself before Adam.

Therefore, Biblically and Qur’anically Adam, whose flesh was made from just the sand (Gen. 2:7, Qur’an 28:72), was notwithstanding such GLORIOUS initially. And, logically, the glorious qualification came from what God breathed in him.

However, Adam did not pass Satanic test but sinned (that shows some relative weakness in him), thereby lost his INITIAL STATUS and therefore was ordered out of MOST EXALTED DWELLING, the Garden of Eden(Qur’an 7:19-24, Gen. 3:1-24). But Jesus passed all the Satanic tests (Mt.4:1-11, Heb. 4:15; Qur’an 19:19), which logically implies comparative superiority in him.

Therefore, the fact that SOIL is the comparative parent of Adam, who, again, could not pass Satanic test, sinned and was demoted; and Mary, the SUPERIOR among all women, is the comparative parent of Jesus, who, again, passed all the Satanic tests, did not sin and therefore was NEVER demoted, given that both Adam and Jesus got their souls unbiologically from God directly; it follows that whatever type of soul God gave Adam was originally INFERIOR to the one He gave Jesus. Thus Jesus would still have been superior to Adam even if he (Adam) had been able to defend his INITIAL STATUS, (and thus Jesus was very superior to the demoted Adam (and, by the way, EXTREMELY superior to Adam’s descendants including MUHAMMAD, whom Allah found STRAY: Qur’an 12:3, 93:6-8).

So if initially Adam, made from soil, was inter-alia, QUALIFIED to be God’s IMAGE/LIKENESS (Biblically) or GOd’s VICEROY and WORTHY OF A WORSHIP BY THE ANGELS OF GOD (Qur’anically), all because his soul was God-breathed, then Jesus, who has much greater of these qualifications and miraculousness (Bible, Qur’an 5:113), is logically divine.

Thus to Jesus’ divinity God did order the angels to worship; indeed, only divinity can be worshiped (Mt. 4:8-10; Qur’an 16:36; Heb. 1:2-6).

That was why when Jesus was asked to disclose God he said, “Have I been with you so long and yet you do not know me…? He who has seen me has seen the Father (God); how can you say, ‘show us the Father?..I do not speak on my (the human) authority, but the Father who DWELLS IN ME DOES HIS WORKS”, John 14:8-10.

That is why Jesus was Biblically likened to (or understood to be) The Great Spirit Priest, Melchizedek who (being a spirit), has no biological father, mother, genealogy and dates of birth and death, but remains an eternal priest; Heb. 7:1-3, (i.e. the genealogy and date of birth of the ever living Jesus were but symbolic as earlier seen).

And, that is why when Jesus accomplished his mission on the Earth naturally, he went back to where he came from, Qur’an 4:158, “God has raised him up unto HIMSELF”. See also John 6:28, 62, and Mk. 16:19. John 8:23.
Yes! Jesus is, according to both the Bible and the Qur’an, back to his origin, God.

This brings us to the issue of Trinity.

The TRINITY

The term ‘Trinity’ is not of Biblical origin but the concept is. Thus, as any Biblically foreign word, it is not necessary to employ it in particular in whatever situation. However, the word ‘Trinity’ is relevantly expressive, thus it was employed as a term by some Bible interpreters just because it was the best word that simply expressed the ONENESS of the Almighty God, His soul in a born human body, and His soul when , or as, not inside a body. Thus:

1. God-the-FATHER, means the ALMIGHTY God.
(Deut.32:6; Mt.5:48,6:9-14; 1Cor.8:4-6)

2.God-the-SON, means the SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God inside His (GOD’S) WORD, which was physically born as a human body. (Col. 1:15, 19; John 1:1, 14-18, 17:5; Phil. 2:5-7; Mt. 1:18; Isa. 9:6; John 14:10; Pls. 82:6)

3. God-the-HOLY-SPIRIT, means just SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God, i.e. when, or as, not inside any bodily form. (John 4:24; MK. 3:28-29; Job 33:4; Gen.. 1:2; Pls. 139:7-12; Hab 3:3; 2Cor. 3:17-18).

It is, therefore simplistic to think that Christian Trinitarian concept originated from paganism just because the pagans had “similar” doctrine before the word “Trinity” was employed by some Bible interpreters. Pagan “Trinity” differs from the Christian own in the sense that it has always referred to three entities whereas that of Christian referred to only one entity who acted in three ways.

Science also suggests the possibility of the Christian TRINITY. Thus: some matters can exist in many physically different capacities and chemically remain their exact selves nevertheless. See ALLOTROPY. Allotropy is the EXISTENCE OF AN ELEMENT IN MANY PHYSICALLY DIFFERENT CAPACITIES AND CHEMICALLY REMAINS IT EXACT SELF, just as Trinity is the EXISTENSE OF THE GOD IN THREE PHYSICALLY DIFFERENT CAPACITIES BUT SPIRITUALLY REMAINS HIS EXACT SELF. Of course, if matter can exhibit such a rare capacity as the allotropy, how much more can the creator himself do? Hence the exceptional ?allotropy?, the Trinity.

Therefore, those who think the TRINITY necessarily implies three Gods simply because 1+1+1=3 and not 1 are just simpletons, as science has once again, shown. You know, Christianity is a religion that makes you to think more about the complexity of life, reality, relativity, time and space etc.