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	<title>Comments on: Slaves, Women &amp; Homosexuals</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/</link>
	<description>Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality</description>
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		<title>By: Crayon Christian</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90077</link>
		<dc:creator>Crayon Christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90077</guid>
		<description>The Christian community should spend its precious resources on something other than convincing people that husbands need to rule and wives need to submit to that rule.

If it spent its resources instead on marriage seminars, and other programs that look at the problems underlying marriage, it could help a lot of Christian marriages avoid divorce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Christian community should spend its precious resources on something other than convincing people that husbands need to rule and wives need to submit to that rule.</p>
<p>If it spent its resources instead on marriage seminars, and other programs that look at the problems underlying marriage, it could help a lot of Christian marriages avoid divorce.</p>
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		<title>By: jlp</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90057</link>
		<dc:creator>jlp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90057</guid>
		<description>Howard,

The Christian community puts enormous effort into convincing wives to be obedient to their husbands.  What if instead they took that same effort and put it into helping husbands and wives work out their problems?  What do you think would happen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard,</p>
<p>The Christian community puts enormous effort into convincing wives to be obedient to their husbands.  What if instead they took that same effort and put it into helping husbands and wives work out their problems?  What do you think would happen?</p>
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		<title>By: jlp</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90049</link>
		<dc:creator>jlp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90049</guid>
		<description>My father loved me, he would have been willing to die for me. He was a teacher, and as a teacher he saw many bad things.  As a result he didn&#039;t want any of his children to go into education.

When I was young I wanted to be a teacher.  But my father told me he wouldn&#039;t give me a penny for college if I became one.  

Late in life I became a teacher.  I regret not becoming a teacher when I was a young person.  I now realize that this is the career that fits my personality the best.  How I wish my father had not influenced me to not go into education.  

My father made the best decision he could when he told me he would not give me money to become a teacher.  He was thinking of my best interests.  But it was still the wrong decision.  How I wish he had supported what I wanted.

We would like to think that God would always lead parents to make the right decisions for their children and husbands to make the right decisions for their families.  But the truth is different, God wants us to work together to make decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My father loved me, he would have been willing to die for me. He was a teacher, and as a teacher he saw many bad things.  As a result he didn&#8217;t want any of his children to go into education.</p>
<p>When I was young I wanted to be a teacher.  But my father told me he wouldn&#8217;t give me a penny for college if I became one.  </p>
<p>Late in life I became a teacher.  I regret not becoming a teacher when I was a young person.  I now realize that this is the career that fits my personality the best.  How I wish my father had not influenced me to not go into education.  </p>
<p>My father made the best decision he could when he told me he would not give me money to become a teacher.  He was thinking of my best interests.  But it was still the wrong decision.  How I wish he had supported what I wanted.</p>
<p>We would like to think that God would always lead parents to make the right decisions for their children and husbands to make the right decisions for their families.  But the truth is different, God wants us to work together to make decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: jlp</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90048</link>
		<dc:creator>jlp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90048</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Husbands (and wives) have blind spots, weak spots, not yet submitted areas of life, past hurts, etc. any of which can blind them to God’s will for their life.&lt;/b&gt;

That describes my life as a believer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Husbands (and wives) have blind spots, weak spots, not yet submitted areas of life, past hurts, etc. any of which can blind them to God’s will for their life.</b></p>
<p>That describes my life as a believer!</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90046</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90046</guid>
		<description>Hi Howard,

I used to be non-egal as that was all I had been taught, but then a Christian counselor suggested I read an egal book and study both sides.  This is what I recommend, as a forum like this can just give a taste of some egal ideas.  When a paradigm shift is involved, it takes much more than a taste.

In regards to redemptive movement hermeneutics, I agree with it (as a general statement) but it is not needed to do so to be an egal, it simply provides additional support.

Husbands (and wives) have blind spots, weak spots, not yet submitted areas of life, past hurts, etc. any of which can blind them to God&#039;s will for their life.  If you read Eph 5 where the husband is called a head/kephale you will see that ALL the examples of Christ as head are serving examples, and NONE are leading examples, so it is best to not bring foreign ideas to the text.  It is true that in 1st century culture the husband was seen as the leader, but that was cultural; the challenge Paul gives the husband is to serve his wife; not be a servant-leader, simply a servant, willing to love her sacrificially.

It is true that Jesus was/is many things, savior, Jew, rabbi, Lord, prophet, high priest, etc. But when serving examples are given it is not good exegesis to read more into the text than is there.  (I do agree that some teachers say that there is more there, but you need to look for yourself.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Howard,</p>
<p>I used to be non-egal as that was all I had been taught, but then a Christian counselor suggested I read an egal book and study both sides.  This is what I recommend, as a forum like this can just give a taste of some egal ideas.  When a paradigm shift is involved, it takes much more than a taste.</p>
<p>In regards to redemptive movement hermeneutics, I agree with it (as a general statement) but it is not needed to do so to be an egal, it simply provides additional support.</p>
<p>Husbands (and wives) have blind spots, weak spots, not yet submitted areas of life, past hurts, etc. any of which can blind them to God&#8217;s will for their life.  If you read Eph 5 where the husband is called a head/kephale you will see that ALL the examples of Christ as head are serving examples, and NONE are leading examples, so it is best to not bring foreign ideas to the text.  It is true that in 1st century culture the husband was seen as the leader, but that was cultural; the challenge Paul gives the husband is to serve his wife; not be a servant-leader, simply a servant, willing to love her sacrificially.</p>
<p>It is true that Jesus was/is many things, savior, Jew, rabbi, Lord, prophet, high priest, etc. But when serving examples are given it is not good exegesis to read more into the text than is there.  (I do agree that some teachers say that there is more there, but you need to look for yourself.)</p>
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		<title>By: jlp</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90043</link>
		<dc:creator>jlp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90043</guid>
		<description>Howard,

&lt;b&gt;The willing submission of a wife to her God submitted husband should not be onerous as his purpose should be to lead humbly and with her good in mind. In this way Christ instructed christians not to use our leadership in a domineering fashion as the heathens do.&lt;/b&gt;

Women in the Christian community hear this all the time!  Then they get married and willingly submit themselves to their husband&#039;s leadership.  Next they find their Christ comitted husband making huge errors that could have been avoided if the two of them had shared leadership.  Even unselfish Christian husbands make errors, not because they don&#039;t love their wives but because they are human.

Husbands cannot be followed like Christ because husbands don&#039;t have Christ&#039;s perfection.  No human has Christ&#039;s perfection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard,</p>
<p><b>The willing submission of a wife to her God submitted husband should not be onerous as his purpose should be to lead humbly and with her good in mind. In this way Christ instructed christians not to use our leadership in a domineering fashion as the heathens do.</b></p>
<p>Women in the Christian community hear this all the time!  Then they get married and willingly submit themselves to their husband&#8217;s leadership.  Next they find their Christ comitted husband making huge errors that could have been avoided if the two of them had shared leadership.  Even unselfish Christian husbands make errors, not because they don&#8217;t love their wives but because they are human.</p>
<p>Husbands cannot be followed like Christ because husbands don&#8217;t have Christ&#8217;s perfection.  No human has Christ&#8217;s perfection.</p>
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		<title>By: Lin</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90042</link>
		<dc:creator>Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90042</guid>
		<description>Howard, There are NO leaders in a true Body of Christ and a Christian marriage. There are only lowly servants mutually submitting to one another. 

I know it is a hard concept but it is true. We are so worldly in our thinking about leadership. We cannot get our heads around the fact that lowly servants disciple new belivers praying that they become mature in the faith. The Holy Spirit does the work, we are just mere instruments. We really do think way too highly of ourselves. And this focus on &#039;leadership&#039; is a huge sin trap. Our thinking that people in the Body need a &#039;leader&#039; is the wrong focus. It is self serving. They need lowly servants who are taking up their crosses and bearing one another&#039;s burdens.

A true godly elder or husband would look so much like Matthew 5 (the salt elements) they would be totally unglamorous to the world and to most professing Christians. 

But now we have so many well paid Christian celebrities that thinking on &#039;leadership&#039;has become the norm. But it most certainly is not what scripture models.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard, There are NO leaders in a true Body of Christ and a Christian marriage. There are only lowly servants mutually submitting to one another. </p>
<p>I know it is a hard concept but it is true. We are so worldly in our thinking about leadership. We cannot get our heads around the fact that lowly servants disciple new belivers praying that they become mature in the faith. The Holy Spirit does the work, we are just mere instruments. We really do think way too highly of ourselves. And this focus on &#8216;leadership&#8217; is a huge sin trap. Our thinking that people in the Body need a &#8216;leader&#8217; is the wrong focus. It is self serving. They need lowly servants who are taking up their crosses and bearing one another&#8217;s burdens.</p>
<p>A true godly elder or husband would look so much like Matthew 5 (the salt elements) they would be totally unglamorous to the world and to most professing Christians. </p>
<p>But now we have so many well paid Christian celebrities that thinking on &#8216;leadership&#8217;has become the norm. But it most certainly is not what scripture models.</p>
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		<title>By: jlp</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90039</link>
		<dc:creator>jlp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90039</guid>
		<description>Christ is perfect and without sin, husbands are not.  Christ is without faults, a husband is not.  A husband can never perfectly imitate the leadership of Christ, because of this.  Wives have often suffered because even Godly Christ centered husbands make mistakes in decision making.

Two heads are better than one.  Having two heads making decisions can lead to conflict.  But it&#039;s better to learn to resolve conflict than to have one person making all the decisions.  

When I was young I forced myself to become a complementarian because that&#039;s what I thought the Lord wanted me to do.  But deep in my heart I always knew that if the same person always made the final decision, such as in the comp view - that the best decisions would not be made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christ is perfect and without sin, husbands are not.  Christ is without faults, a husband is not.  A husband can never perfectly imitate the leadership of Christ, because of this.  Wives have often suffered because even Godly Christ centered husbands make mistakes in decision making.</p>
<p>Two heads are better than one.  Having two heads making decisions can lead to conflict.  But it&#8217;s better to learn to resolve conflict than to have one person making all the decisions.  </p>
<p>When I was young I forced myself to become a complementarian because that&#8217;s what I thought the Lord wanted me to do.  But deep in my heart I always knew that if the same person always made the final decision, such as in the comp view &#8211; that the best decisions would not be made.</p>
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		<title>By: jlp</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/01/a-book-review-of-slaves-women-homosexuals-exploring-the-hermeneutics-of-cultural-analysis-by-william-j-webb/comment-page-2/#comment-90037</link>
		<dc:creator>jlp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=369#comment-90037</guid>
		<description>Howard,

Just to be honest with you, I do not believe that placing a wife under her husband&#039;s leadership or authority is equality.

My definition of equality is letting someone both lead and follow, not follow alone.  IMO to be in a position of always following is a position of being a perpetual child.  It&#039;s doesn&#039;t allow women to be adults.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard,</p>
<p>Just to be honest with you, I do not believe that placing a wife under her husband&#8217;s leadership or authority is equality.</p>
<p>My definition of equality is letting someone both lead and follow, not follow alone.  IMO to be in a position of always following is a position of being a perpetual child.  It&#8217;s doesn&#8217;t allow women to be adults.</p>
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