The CBE Scroll

Comment by Frank

May 28, 2009 @ 11:37 am

Whenever I hear or read stories of this sort, I find myself torn by sadness and anger, wishing to do something more than just pray about it. But that is where we must start. And we not only need to ask for God’s intervention, but also ask how we, joining with others who share our sense of outrage at this wickedness and injustice, can take effective measures not only to expose but outlaw this despicable trafficking of women and children. And I think we also need to pray for a renewal of the Church that results in a recovery of both the soteriological and socio-political applications of Christ’s Gospel of the Kingdom, such as moved Wilberforce and his supporters to oppose slavery and moral decay in England. But I suppose I’m only stating what others would say about this matter.

Comment by Sonnet

May 29, 2009 @ 8:59 pm

What a depressing story. Her situation for two years sounded even worse than being in a Nazi concentration camp.

Would it be wrong to pray that God would bring plagues upon the captors and traders (and spare the captives) similar to plagues inflicted only on the Egyptians during the time of Moses – perhaps things like boils, lice, and dysentery? Maybe if the captors became drastically weakened physically, the captives would be allowed or able to escape.

Comment by jlp

May 30, 2009 @ 6:04 pm

There are all these Christians who spend their time converting women to the gospel of female submission, but ignore things like this. I would like to see these Christians get involved in stopping the sex slave trade. They need to focus on something other than making women obedient to men.

Comment by leigh

May 30, 2009 @ 11:20 pm

JLP, it’s been interesting for me to note that a number of churches that I know of who do believe in female submission ARE indeed fighting this very battle. It’s strange to me in a number of ways, of course.

I do appreciate the cooperation I’m seeing between feminist groups and churches/religious groups, on this issue. It’s not an issue for the left or the right, but indeed one for all of us. The United States is far from immune from the sex slavery trade: Often the sex slavery of children, usually girls, sometimes young (under 18) women, in particular.

Human trafficking is profitable: The U.S. Department of Justice says, “…human trafficking is a major source of profit for organized crime syndicates, along with trafficking in drugs and guns.” (source: “Trafficking in Persons–A Guide for Non-Governmental Organizations”
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/wetf/trafficbrochure.php)

Comment by jlp

May 31, 2009 @ 7:55 am

Give me the names of some of the churches who preach female submission who are involved in fighting sexual slavery. I need to know for my own peace of mind. Thanks.

Comment by jlp

May 31, 2009 @ 7:58 am

Leigh,

Leigh,

My own experience is that some of the big names and groups in evangelical Christianity that are big promoters of the gospel of female submission – have no concern about crimes men commit against women. They just don’t deal with the issue.

My question is if there are indeed churches that promote the gospel of female submission and are involved in fighting sexual slavery – which do they emphasize more?

Comment by leigh

May 31, 2009 @ 3:10 pm

I cannot reply specifically to your query publicly, as to do so would reveal more than I am comfortable revealing in such a public forum.

I can speak of only one of those churches, as my knowledge of the churches involved is limited, and female submission is not heard from the pulpit at that location. Words against injustice are, and there are special, occasional events as well as ongoing efforts involving the ordained and the laity in the fight against human trafficking.

You would not know the names involved, would be my bet, as they are not big players in any sense of which I am aware in the greater evangelical world.

The denomination itself, however, believes in female submission, and so it is surprising to me to see this, particularly child sexual slavery, being of concern to them. That’s the reason I mentioned it. I believe that they miss the link, though.

Comment by leigh

May 31, 2009 @ 3:15 pm

I do appreciate that most churches that promote female subordination don’t typically concern themselves with justice issues.

The Catholic church being the obvious exception. I’ve always found that odd about them.

Comment by jlp

May 31, 2009 @ 6:27 pm

The denomination itself, however, believes in female submission, and so it is surprising to me to see this, particularly child sexual slavery, being of concern to them.

That makes me feel hopeful.

Comment by Sonnet

May 31, 2009 @ 8:06 pm

“She is now back with her family and looked upon like a disease in her home church because of the disgrace done to her.”

It is so sad that her church is PUNISHING her for being a victim. I believe that this is a result of hierarchal teachings that view women as being under the domain (and consequently as property) of men. This, in turn, creates a mentality of seeing victimized women as “damaged goods” instead of seeing them as being EQUALLY made in the image of God and as equal image-bearers of God and thus deserving of the same level of honor and respect that men expect to receive.

‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ Matthew 25:45 (TNIV)

Comment by jlp

May 31, 2009 @ 9:13 pm

This woman was sinned against in a montrous way, yet her church appears to blame her rather than her oppressors.

Comment by joanne

May 31, 2009 @ 10:01 pm

this story was hard to read. God must weep at such things.

It makes sense when the bible speaks of justice toward the widow, orphan and stanger. All are vulnerable in any given society. I am so sad that her experience of her church was so invalidating. Her side should have been taken as she is not to blame for being taken as a slave.

Her story reminds me of the prophet’s concubine in the book of Judges. The one who was given by the Prophet to the men in the town who gang raped her all night, returned her in the morning and left her for dead. She then did die and was dismembered and her pieces sent to the tribes of Israel. Funny, no one ever preaches on that story. that story raises too many issues about God, (how could he allow her experience), about injustice toward women as property to be thrown out and used at the will of the men.

The church cannot deal properly with such horrific issues unless it faces sexism and the way women are viewed in the church. (while many would say it was wrong, and even work for better circumstance or justice, few would recognize the root cause of misogyny).

Comment by Donald Guffey

June 1, 2009 @ 10:30 am

This story sadly is the ultimate end of patriarchal teaching. It strips women of their humanity and makes them nothing more than sex toys. Churches that teach this type of female submission don’t realize what the ultimate manifestation of such doctrine is. I pray that they will one day see the damage to the kingdom of God they are doing. Maybe one day maybe…

Comment by Anca

June 2, 2009 @ 12:37 am

Sonnet,I think you hit it right on the nail! The church is treating her like damaged goods! Like so many of you have said above, the hierarchical teaching teaches people that women are the possession of man, and since she was abused, she is now only viewed in relation to what she cannot give a man because she is now damaged goods! It’s like to them she does not have a right in and of herself to live and be respected! She is only judged by her value according to what good use she would be to a man! It’s interesting to note that according to them a man can sleep around with countless numbers of women and no one thinks a thing of it, yet when a woman like my friend is raped she is automatically labeled a whore!

I wonder what someone like John Piper who believes that all men are in authority over all women would tell my friend? What excuse would he dare to make? I hope he would not after teaching a heresy that empowers men in that way, tell her that unfortunately the men abused their authority. You cannot teach men that it is biblical for them to be selfish and controlling in the name of headship, and then tell the men that they went too far after only living out what they where taught in the first place!

Comment by Lms526

June 2, 2009 @ 3:51 pm

My heart just breaks for your friend. I can’t even imagine what it would be like to go through such unspeakable horror. It makes me sad and angry that things like this still happen today, and for the most part, the world, even those in the Church, turns a blind eye. I once read a book (based on a true story) about a woman from Saudi Arabia. She was a member of the royal family. So obviously, her real name is not given. But she talks freely about the atrocities against women that happen in Saudi Arabia. Another young woman was locked in a sound-proof room by her father. She had no human contact, and no one could hear her screams. Needless to say, the poor woman ended up going insane. Her crime? She dated a foreigner. In the same book, there is also a story of a young woman (I don’t remember, but I believe she was 12 or 13) who was gang raped by a group of men. The men were not even charged, while the young woman was stoned to death in a mercy killing. In a book on Christian persecution, I read that in Egypt, Christian women are raped and then forced to marry the man who raped them.
Sexual slavery is one of those issues that makes people uncomfortable, which is understandable, because it’s not a pleasant topic to talk or think about it. I have found that there are two types of ignorant people in this world. There are people who are truly ignorant and really don’t know. But there are also people who are willfully ignorant. They don’t want to know. I think there are a lot of people (both Christians and non) who want to believe that this is just a 3rd World country problem. But it is not! I mean, who wants to acknowledge that something like this is happening right now, even in America.. I think especially Christians tend to shy away from issues like this. Christ was willing to associate with lepers, prostitutes, tax collectors and other “sinners”. So why is it that so many modern Christians aren’t willing to get their hands dirty and do the same? It wasn’t in this book, but I once read a quote that I think is so true. “A lot of people believe that the opposite of love is hate. But it is not, the true opposite of love is indifference.” I think that is so true. I can’t believe that people who claim to love Christ would treat your friend like this was her fault. I don’t understand how anyone could see the woman in this story as anything but a victim. It makes me sick. This is one of the reasons why I have very mixed feelings about going to church. In my opinion, the Christians today, seem much more interested in shooting the wounded, rather than reaching out to them with the love of Christ.
I recently re-watched the movie “Amazing Grace”. At the end of the movie, there is a quote that I think applies perfectly to the subject of sexual slavery.

“You may choose to look the other way, but you can never again say you did not know.” William Wilberforce.

Comment by Lin

June 2, 2009 @ 4:51 pm

This just made me sick and angry. I expect heathen thugs to be heinous sinners but I do not expect believers to victimize her all over again. She was NOT disgraced. They are. And this makes them just as guilty. We are to bear one another’s burdens.

Thankfully, the truth of the Gospel is that Jesus Christ does not see her like that.

I want to add this clip from Voddie Baucham because it plays into this thinking about women and men on many levels. He would deny that but it is true. Here is the video clip and an excerpt (where he says some good things on the clip but the poison he adds in leavens the whole):

“A lot of men are leaving their wives for younger women because they yearn for attention from younger women. And God gave them a daughter who can give them that. And instead they go find a substitute daughter….you’ve seen it, we’ve all seen it. These old guys going and finding these substitute daughters.”

Note: He is making the case that older men need attention from younger women. Sick. Sick Sick.

Here is the video clip:

Comment by jlp

June 2, 2009 @ 8:20 pm

There are some good things in this clip, but there are a lot of really weird things also. The crazy things he says undoes the validity of the good things he says.

Comment by Demelza

June 2, 2009 @ 8:43 pm

JLP,

That is a terrible accusation to make. Can *you* provide any examples of churches or individual Christians who, “spend their time converting women to the gospel of female submission, but ignore things like this.”?

I come from a patriarchalist church background (my family and I have been members of 4 different Baptist denominations) and I have *never* been in a church which ignores the issue of slave trafficking.

Kamilla

Comment by Kamilla

June 2, 2009 @ 8:46 pm

Sorry about the Demelza thing – public computer in the hospital library. Last night one of the residents left herself signed into her credit card account!

Kamilla

Comment by tiro

June 2, 2009 @ 10:02 pm

In reality most churches are not aware slave trafficking is still happening. I’ve also been in several Baptist churches over 30 years and really never once heard such a thing mentioned. How can we say they ignore something they don’t know is happening.

Comment by Kamilla

June 2, 2009 @ 10:15 pm

Well, all I can say from my own experience is that the churches I have been a part of are so heavily connected to missionary efforts that they can’t help *but* be aware of it. And, perhaps it’s something I’m just more acutely aware of because of my own work in this area.

Kamilla

Comment by jlp

June 3, 2009 @ 12:02 pm

TL,

It may be that some churches do know about sexual slavery, but just chose not to talk about it.

Comment by Lin

June 3, 2009 @ 12:31 pm

“A lot of men are leaving their wives for younger women because they yearn for attention from younger women. And God gave them a daughter who can give them that. And instead they go find a substitute daughter….you’ve seen it, we’ve all seen it. These old guys going and finding these substitute daughters.”

That is a quote from Voddie Baucham, who teaches Patriarchy. Do folks not see how man centered Patriarchy really is? It promotes a depraved sinner as the center of the universe for women. All things are to evolve around a human being..the dad. God help you if he is Papa Pilgrim.

And Voddie is teaching that older men need attention from younger women. Note the focus on the man’s selfish needs for his ego. It is a perversion to teach such things.

Patriarchy is so very man centered. It is not Christ centered.. It scares me for young woman who are stuck in this false teaching.

This is one step away from seeing women as objects for pleasure and use. It is worldly. And it is why this poor woman’s church thinks SHE is disgraced by her victimization at the hands of evil.

Patriarchy is not that different from Islam.

Comment by Liz

June 3, 2009 @ 8:21 pm

What a dreadful thing to say about God….that he gives men daughters so they (dads) can have the attention of younger women. As Lin said…..that sort of thinking is so selfish and unbalanced. There would not be a shred of scripture to back up such an outrageous claim.

Comment by Liz

June 3, 2009 @ 8:31 pm

A timely reminder……please do not indulge in assessing the motives of those who write comments. Everyone is free to write what they believe and should be respected for their views. We all have the freedom to explore and think through these important issues and should be able to do so without being judged or criticised.

As administrators, we will write personally to any contributors who we consider are writing comments which are divisive or unkind. We will also continue to delete comments which are not written in a conciliatory manner.

Liz & Trevor