God is so amazing and compassionate towards us! He has so much that He longs to give to us and share with us, but He never forces Himself upon us. And you are right, He knows all of our thoughts so we never can hide anything from Him.

When I was trying to accept and live out the complementarian (with hierarchy!) stuff because it had always been presented to me as the *only* God honoring way, I wrestled with their interpretation(s) of several verses about women. I would be honest with God about how unfair I thought those verses made Him sound… especially the one about women needing to be *silent* in the church (even though that verse was not enforced at the churches I attended). I would question Him as to why He seemed to prefer men. Why bother trying to hide it? That would be impossible to do.

Now I am so incredibly thankful that God has shown me another way to understand those previously hurtful verses. Now I KNOW that God IS love and that God values men and women equally! I KNOW that God is JUST and that God is compassionate towards the oppressed and downcast.

sue

all that I have seen [and am learning to live out, I haven't lived it out before, I can honestly say, this past year, I finally saw, what it really is, to belong to Christ], and learned,

is what God, has done for me, in His kindness and grace. And I do mean, kindness, mercy and grace, I cannot stress that enough, because ‘good Christian’ I am not,

more like wreckage, that God, started putting back together. Piece by piece, and with a lot of putting up with my raging at Him,

when I dumped the whole ‘trying to be positive’ because that was what I was always told, when I got ‘real’ with God, when I said, forget it, I’d rather be honest, my life sucks and no its not fair,

then, Then, God started to show me things, one after the other, when I stopped denying the bitterness [and bitterness isn't the sin, its letting it 'trouble you, that causes the defiling, 'Hebrews',and Joseph, after years of humbly submitting and not giving up, Still cried bitter tears when his brothers came before him, this was after Joseph was exalted, not before, that is another one of those 'Disney World Christianity myths that is heaped up on folks to justify indifference, apathy and guilt onto the victims of injustice], those ‘burdens’ of the law yet without lifting a finger to carry or help carry those burdens, that whole ‘we aren’t our brother’s keeper thing’,

it is God’s kindness, that I am seeing there is no words really, to describe…

but all in all, what I see more, is where I need to do, rather than on what is wrong with it all, you know, where it gets, to that ‘personal’ [you know, the personal is political, and vice versa] well, its the same thing with all that God has revealed to me, that all in all, its about what I do, how I live and serve Him. And well, I guess, we can’t really do that, until we Know, who Jesus really is,

not who they ‘say’ He is. Maybe that is what Jesus meant, by ‘many will call me Lord, Lord, etc., but I never ‘knew you’,

to ‘know’ someone, is to be intimate with them, and they you, to see the dark in our selves, under His light, to really see it, to really see Him,

for Who He is, not the ‘image’ that has been molded. To ‘know’ Him, you know, yesterday, I was thinking on this, about the light, about the ‘ten virgins’, and the ‘oil’, the times Jesus says about the servant who didn’t prepare himself, about those who do not the Will of the Father,

what it all means. I was in the tub [where I do a lot of thinking and God answers, lol] looking at the lightbulb, in our bathroom, and you know, for the light to work, it has to be connected to the source of energy,

a bulb can still be in the socket, but not give off light. I have about four of them that way, and I asked Jesus, telling Him, that is how I feel, like a burned out socket,

and He reminded me of the ten virgins, the oil, they needed oil in their lamps [and that goes to about the story of the widow, Elijah, and the empty vessels], they needed the ‘oil’ to see, to be ‘lit’ up, like a light,

without the oil, you can be connected but not give off light, the bridegroom is coming for those who give off ‘light’.

Question is then, where does one get oil? That being prepared…that oil, is ‘in service’, that ‘being in Love, that renewing the first love’, religion kills that quicker than anything,

to ‘know’ someone, this is what Paul meant, bearing the marks of Jesus in his body, Paul KNEW Christ. Intimately,

that is what I want, I don’t want, the cliches, the positive merry go round, I want what is REAL,

and I won’t settle for less. Why should we? The world, and I searched it all, offers nothing but counterfeits and lies and myths, that whole hierarchy, that tree of knowledge, I had enough of the broken promises and the cliches and the pat answers, besides,

I didn’t believe any of them [thank goodness for negativity and cynicism there, it kept me from settling], anyway,

so, why not go all the way? I don’t know, hard to explain, but I think, not to praise negativity here, but I think, because I wasn’t willing to buy into the pat answers, that was what urged me to keep digging, to keep asking, to keep seeking, beyond what was given,

and I want to tell people, forget the ‘religion’, seriously, forget all that you’ve been told, and go to God, to Jesus, to the Word, with who you are where you are, be real,

because guess what, God sees through the b.s. anyway, so might as well. And what is really mind blowing,

is that, while God will correct, yes, because He is a Holy God, He doesn’t just leave it at that, He shows you, Why, not via law, but a Life,

hard to explain, but, if God can in His mercy, show me all this, after all the garbage I have done and I mean, horrible, ultra horrible…[and some of the worst when I was all religious back in the day, I was more hateful then than when I was a die hard commie],

then He is, truly, an Amazing God, and there simply, is no words, for me, to even begin, to describe Him. Not really, all I can do, is just bow my head,

hang on to the Cross [for dear life] seriously because if I have learned anything through all the rebellion and years of defiance, is His Mercy, and I do mean, Mercy, [it has Nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with me being good, not even],

and well, that is, I believe, submission, true submission, and that is what, we, as a ‘church’ and as individuals, need to get back to,

I think, generally speaking, this has been all but forgotten, religion does that, that forgetting,

its really easy to forget from whence we came, but forget, is what, we should never do…after all, its only ONLY GRACE,

not of ourselves, and knowing that, knowing Him, just the idea, of being entitled to lordship or authority, is an oxymoron, that is where I saw it the most. In myself, not just in seeing what is wrong with the picture,

just saying…you all do good work here btw, it is needed, I am grateful, God used this site with a few others, to aid me, in my search for answers.

Peace,

Jane

It certainly seems to be the case of a church within a church now as the ‘institution’ is so tainted, but praise God for people like yourself (and you are not alone) who see the deeper issues and speak when given the opportunity but mostly LIVE out the gospel. Thanks for sharing all you have learnt and particularly that you are learning to not be bitter and especially to not blame God but work with God and see his kingdom come as that grain of mustard seed – may yours grow into a mighty tree.

That’s a lot [and it really goes into so much more that is too lengthy to go into here] but my point is, that to confront patriarchy [misogyny] and slavery [and the two are related] we have to deconstruct two other things,

economics [hierarchy because they are related] and power and the relationship of power and patriarchy,

in other words, we can’t just confront patriarchy in itself, where the church is concerned, because like JLP says, the scholars Refuse to look at yes, the TRUTH, of how slaves, mostly being women, were SEX SLAVES, that little ugly truth, has been ignored, and to ignore is a perpetuating of the economic realities [and coercing women into economic dependence on the male is relative to trafficking and sex slavery and why God says, time and time and time again, to care for widows, to prevent prostitution],

slavery and sex slavery are not two different things, if there is slavery, there is sex slavery. And the ‘myth’ that slaves were treated well, is that, a myth,

to be forced to sleep with a man because you are a slave, is not kindness, hardly. IT don’t matter if he doesn’t beat you, its still RAPE. You do it because to not do it, is to risk harm [and slaves know this]. This is WHY,

I believe, God chose Isaac, from the Free Woman, not the Bond woman, [Ishmael] to be the lineage [one reason] and why it was emphasized in Galatians…God in no way, chooses or condones slavery, sexual or other wise. In Paul’s day though, and this is something that you can thank Trotsky for, LOL [yes, God has used many of the ideologies to show me things in relation to the Bible],

slaves had no choice, Rome, was after all, a Totalitarian Authoritarian EMPIRE, there was no ‘escaping’ not for women anyhow, unless someone redeemed her via payment, she was stuck. [I believe this may have had something to do with why Peter said better to suffer for doing right, probably did have something to do with those slaves and women who did not submit to rape, who were beaten due to or killed, suffering 'according to the will of God', still submissive but to the Lord, not to man and the Bible is very clear about the distinction between those two].

Today however, in THIS country, there is no excuse because guess what?

WE ARE, THE GOVERNMENT, WE, THE PEOPLE.

So for the church to preach on one hand, a condoning of ‘slavery’ a.k.a. subjugation of women as ‘inferior lots by the divine will of God so they say’ while neglecting its role in perpetuating the slavery around the world, in particularly the sex slavery, domestic slavery [trafficking of nannies, who are often raped] and sweatshop slavery [concentration camps and I have references to photos if interested, they are labor camps], today using the times of Rome,

is ludicrous to say the least. But they do, and they forget, that its not ‘us’ living under a tyranny, that has no choice, but ‘us’ who are the People, the Government, that has a ‘say’ in how we are governed, or how government should be, as a Nation, we ARE ACCOUNTABLE.

Anyway, sorry, [got off subject there] but what I learned from something Trotsky said and the teachings of Paul in regards to ‘authority’ and Jude, for that fact, is that in their day, to revolt’ which is what the zealots did Do, and in retaliation the Romans slaughtered how many thousands? Anyway, that ‘submit to the authorities’ had to do with

not being a Reactionary Revolutionary, Trotsky talked of the same, something in revolutionary theory, is that the ‘reactionaries’ do more to harm and to STRENGTHEN THE STATE OF OPPRESSION than to deliver, and I do believe, that is what Paul [even Jesus] was warning against, because God in His infinite wisdom knows, the disastrous results of the reactionary revolt. [not that He concurs with the status quo]

[just looking at the physical realm here, there is that spiritual realm too] and why Paul says, our warfare is not in the flesh–not carnal, etc.

This is why, WE are supposed to be the ‘light’. [this is where if you look at the spiritual realm, going to the post reply above, it makes sense].

And this is where the Church DOES HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY,

if we, condone the ‘subjugation’ of a human because of gender or race, what have you, we then, are condoning the subjugation of other peoples, for what ever reason. WE are no longer the ‘light’ but we are like the world, under that hierarchy of power, and our arguments for Love, are mute.

If we condone [generally speaking] using scripture [distortion] of reducing women into nothing but sex chattel, we perpetuate the mentality of justifications used in parts of the world for slavery, trafficking, rape, forced child marriages, etc., because how we Treat one another,

is what the world sees. This is why the message sadly, of the modern day church in the West, is ridiculed, esp from the outside world [non-West]. Anyway, we can’t even begin to deconstruct until we look at the economic benefits and/or privilege we as a nation, as a people, as a church even, as individuals, have gotten from the enslavement of others, particularly women [and women of color especially].

This, this is where the church for the most part, in this nation, does NOT want to go, because then, it would rock the boat, on so much, particularly when it comes to privilege. [wealth especially, where the coveting and worship of money comes in] And this is because, long ago, the church became polluted with the ideologies [that were Euro-centric] of wealth and power, rather than being Christ like, laying Down our lives, it became about ‘gaining’, saving our lives, of course,

at the expense of others, those who are ‘invisible’ and those who are ‘not Christian nations, the ‘savages’, or ‘heathens’. That was how they reconciled the greed, the blood,

and today, they are still doing it, with the ‘well that is how they are, that is because they worship idols, or are unsaved’, etc. The focus [by the leaders] becomes not on us being saved by Grace, us SINNERS, US HEATHEN, but, we, the upright, whom God blesses, the ‘entitlements’ while the others, suffer for their rebellion.

That scripture, when the apostles asked Jesus, if He wanted them to ‘pray’ for fire from heaven to the community that would not prepare for Jesus coming to Jerusalem, and Jesus answered, you do not know the spirit of which you say this…

its the same thing. Its always that justification, oh well we are ‘men’ and women are ordained by God to suffer, or we are ‘upright’ and Christian and AMERICAN and ‘white’ and they are heathen and so forth…and then, the using the scriptures to back those rationalizations up…the distortion of, that is, using Theology, as a political machine to push a ‘system’, or establishment of a ‘norm’ that is compatible to the values of the society at the time. [or to the status quo, that is]

This is what we are up against. We’re talking about a whole CULTURE here, that is rooted in using Biblical ‘religious’ distortions, to justify all sorts of evils,

just because, of the ‘we are better than’ mentality. [Israel did same thing, when the Daughter of Zion became 'political and nationalist' rather than the separated People of God].

And until the ‘church’ sees the correlation, it won’t change, and to see the correlation means to question more than just the distortion of submission teachings,

it means, to question our entire philosophical and political [and economic esp] framework in this nation…to question, Privilege. And I have found, personally, that this, this is what does separate the

wheat from the chaff.

Oh, sure, many will immediately get defensive and say, ‘well, we give to charity’,

big deal–SO DID THE PHARISEES, remember the story of the widow who gave from her whole substance while they gave from their plenty? And this is why I think, Jesus said, to the rich young ruler, sell and give, etc. Because its linked,

slavery, sex slavery, and love of money which = power, due to resources, are linked.

And its not just love of money–its love of ‘pleasure’. More than service, go back to James, how the Spirit follows our desires to the point of envy, why there are ‘wars’ among you, due to wanting, and not having, talk about the haves and the have nots, lol,

and we, live in a society where its all about, what one has. Our economy, is based, on the whole pyramid structure, the dollar bill, pyramid with eye on top, ever notice something,

the Cross, four points, north, south, west, east, its CIRCULAR, with Jesus at the CORE. NOT the top, but at the core, the four angles, winds…go in a circle, gathering the people, from North, South, East and West [Revelations,the remnant].

We aren’t supposed to be ‘supporters’ of the pyramid, which, btw,

take three pyramids, put them together, you get a ring, a WEB, [world wide web, think about it], a spider web, a SNARE, that if you look at the rings, looks, like a TREE, you know how the tree has rings,

there you go, Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And in the OT, where it says, that in the end, they will say, ‘we didn’t deliver anyone’, [hang on...Isaiah 26] So, to support the machinery, of hierarchy, or to support the reactionary machinery,

both are wrong. Both are from that tree–there is no absolutes in that tree, of knowledge, that is just it, its the Tree of LIFE, that rises outside and above the knowledge…why human solutions won’t work. Why it won’t change in this world,

so, then, the question then becomes, what is to be done, as Lenin would say? Honestly, I don’t think it will change, as far as confronting the church, its too far gone, the dialectic that is,

its apostate. Not going to become apostate, it already is there, and has been….for so long, I was so angry about this, but now that I see it, understand it, [where the spiritual realm comes in] I have found peace, Jesus said, the peace I leave you, not as the World gives…

its in our works, in our LIFE, what we LIVE, so for me, personally, its not about changing minds, as much as its me, living contrary to the power, that has meant, yes, having to walk away, from a lot, including many of the church,

its about becoming ethical [as much as possible] in consumption or doing without, about giving all, service, planting the flowers rather than thorns, in the world’s weedbed, its about doing relief work where I can, when I can, and seeking more opportunity, to set free captives,

the one to one, you know, because for me, personally, it takes so much energy to try and convince people, all those years, I could have been doing more on a one to one, feeding, giving water, healing, what have you, and the thing is, to live that, does require sacrifice, even death [most likely in many places],

but I think, that is what its about. Those who insist on their ‘rights’ to be in position or lording over others, over women, don’t care…[most of them don't], because they don’t have the Spirit, the Spirit of God won’t allow you, to live for self–to be ‘entitled’, not for long anyway,

and that is what being a disciple is, I am finding. This world is not our world, and the thing is, the church today, that ‘establishment’ is not the true church, for the most part, its just another arm of the world,

I think, myself, that the remnant, is not the church per se [evangelical or other wise, don't matter], but its people, here and there, that are living the disciple life, the Wild Sycamore, just like Zechariah, those who live in Christ, those wild fig trees.

So for this reason, to me, maybe its more about just going to those places, and assisting those women and children, in sharing Christ–even if one has to go through the secular channels to do so, due to lack of missions that allow women to be free enough to actually minister, who knows,

or on the streets here in America. Hell, we don’t even preach for the most part, taking in strangers here, like the Bible says too [that was to the women too, another part of Bible the church leaves out...Paul said, in regards to women, widows, if she brings up children, helps the poor, relieves the saints, works, works, works, not one thing, not ONE thing, about how her house looks or her husband, you know, it was about her 'mission' work for Christ...

anyway, this is where I am going, for me, you know, I'm to the point, that to even try and convince the misogynists is a total waste of time, what they need, is Jesus,

because there is no way, if one knows Jesus, they can justify, their 'rights' to lord it over anyone, its just so contrary to the entire Bible, NT, that right there, pretty much sums it up, the whole 'men are by God given right, entitled to be lords and heads and all that other nonsense, have totally missed the entire message of the CROSS,

the laws of Heaven, with Jesus at the CORE, and well, meanwhile, there are people in need. I can't stop or end slavery, but I can, help those escape, I can offer refuge [city of refuge is so needed] I can do something…we all can,

Amy Carmichael, one woman, saved hundreds of girls from temple prostitution, a woman that inspired me years ago…[and I wished, I would have listened to my heart, rather than the patriarchal church and the whole you have to be married garbage to have value and so forth] because the need is just so great, everywhere, starting in our homes BUT NOT ENDING THERE,

and that, well, that is where its come to for me, regardless, that is what I am doing. Somehow, someway, its not the American way, its not the ‘traditional Christian American way’, its not the ‘gender role’ way, but its

Christ’s way,

and well, it seems to be, to be more about bearing ‘fruit’, rather than trying to convince those who really need Jesus, more than convincing, because they may have religion, not sure if they have Christ. And there is So many foundations in America [Paul said, he didn't lay on another man's foundation],

why build on them? When there is a world out there, that needs us? I won’t wait on the church to catch up, forget it, not enough time…so, if it means, going with secular groups, to minister to women, or going alone, guess that how it has to be, and it was thinking through all of this,

that I saw, I just saw, hard to explain, but I think, that is what its about. The scholars JLP won’t look at the slavery because they don’t care…

most don’t care, sad to say, but this I’m sure of, what we know, we are required of, Jesus said so, and something Marx said, that well, LOL, who’d have thought,

he said, ‘the point isn’t to philosophize about the world, but to change it’,

well, we can’t change the world, but we can change our ‘role’ in it, and maybe, that is what Paul was saying all along. We can’t change governments or hearts who are insistent on ‘their rights to lord’ but we can change, how we live in that world, and the early church, they distributed among themselves, they took care of the widows daily [ACTS], they took care of the poor, they housed them, they traveled, they gave up their lives. And in the churches then, the ‘assemblies that met in Homes, not buildings who owe real estate, another entanglement with the world’, they LOVED ONE ANOTHER and the would even excommunicate those who were covetors and violent [brawlers] and that would include domestic violence, etc., we don’t even do that now a days, until that person would repent, etc., then they would take them back,

the whole concept was on service and laying down one’s life for others, not laying down self to take abuse via patriarchy. And maybe, that is what it means, when it says, God calls us out, to be a people, separated unto Himself. And I believe, today, that includes, separating from the whole status quo too,

not easy, I am finding, its a lonely walk–but,one that I am, finding God, to be more real, more Alive, than ever before. As for those, who insist on the subjugation of women,

pray for them, that is about it. There simply is too much more, that is needed, to waste precious time with them…not to be offensive there, just saying, in the time, I debate them, I could be, feeding ten homeless people, as a WOMAN,

married, yes, to an unbeliever. Loving him in Christ, but not following his path, you know, and you know, when I do this, rather than the whole blind dumb down submission distortion, he notices, something different…he takes notice,

it takes wisdom and a lot of prayer and time in the Word, and like Mary, God is my salvation, Jesus is my Lord,

not my husband. He is just a man…nothing more. I was born into this world and will go out of it alone…giving account to Jesus, for my life, not to my husband. Or any other man where that is concerned…and that, I think, really says it all. The distortions, spewed today, are I am convinced, from the pits of hell, they are a hindrance, to the commission, to the commandments, that Jesus said,

if you love me, you’ll obey me. No man or woman, can serve two masters. You will either hate one or the other, can’t do both. And that, is where, yes, one suffers according to the Will of God,

choose Christ, and let the Bael teachings, fall by the way side. There is no life, in that tree, no honey, just poison, that is toxic, you can’t change the toxic, if we could, Jesus would have said, change the tree of knowledge,

but He didn’t. HE said, stay in the Tree of Life.

that’s it, in a nutshell.

Peace, Jane

OK, well, since I wrote that [on one of my bad days btw, I have seen things in so much scripture that is Evidence against the 'apostate' teachings of the Western church today] but I have found, that when I read the general teachings, it distorts and that I must hang on to the things God has shown me, which some days is not easy. The ‘key’ isn’t really about the whole submission argument,

its in the ‘coveting’ that is the Pollution ‘and where Satan got a foothold’ in today’s church, and the Patriarchal and Slavery justifications are wrapped up in that pyramid, and the ‘distortion of submission’ teachings, we are confronting today, are in fact, Pagan, they are not Christian, and I have been finding Tons of proof on that one, one area, that I did see, is how today’s teaching to women on submission, particularly where the emphasis on gender roles/and sexuality is concerned, is that it is really, a ‘role play of the pedophile fantasy’,

bear with me on this one, allow me to clarify. The ‘dumbed down ‘child-wife’ which is what the ‘mainstream’ is teaching [and has been for eons] was in fact, CHALLENGED in the early 1900s, by the church, in America. During the days of industrialization and capitalism and this is where Marx saw it–but he only focused on the arrangement of family [him and Engels] and on the economic structure of the pyramid, per se–Marx was absolutely right on so much,

but he didn’t go ‘far enough’, he blamed Judao-Christianity, as did Lerner on her “Creation of Patriarchy”, she is right on a lot too–

but they didn’t go far back, into the codes and laws of Sumeria and Babylon and Egypt in those days, and this is where the ‘goddess’ teachings have been really distorted…but this is where I first started seeing a connection, when I studied a bit on Ancient Mesopotamia, which btw, the ‘cult’ of those religions, is increasing today, and if you do a search on my tribe or yahoo, you can find them.

I read the book of Enoch a while back–its one of those that I have put in what I call a ‘question box’ meaning, I don’t ‘believe’ it totally, but I don’t discount it either, and there were ‘two’ Enochs in the Old Testament, [something the debate forgets], one a son from Seth’s line, but another from the line of Cain [read Genesis] so, who knows,

I believe it’s possible the book of Enoch is true, but that it could be possible that the one they found could be a ‘distortion, who knows, again, one of those question marks, Anyway, Jude does refer to Enoch and then there are scriptures all through the Bible, OT esp, in regards to submission, in being a ‘servant’, Daniel is good example here. He was a servant, but he did NOT bow to the ‘gods’ so to speak….

anyway, I believe that scripture in regards to the ‘women having authority’ over her head where ‘angels’ are concerned IS related in fact, to the book of Enoch OR to the fact that in the OT, where it talks about the Nephalim, which btw, I found references to the ‘giants’ that Moses mentions, that David mentions, the Ammorites and so forth, and something I wonder about–Ammorites, the root Ammor, look at Amer in America…[something that dawned on me other day]

anyway, I have had numerous dreams too, not saying, these are ‘saith the Lord’ OK, just saying, its like a ‘puzzle’ and I’m seeing it…through the whole historical dialect, and I’ve been getting confirmations from the Word, time and time again…

and I spend a LOT of time in the Word, [not bragging just saying, because it really IS my anchor, I spent years rebelling and in the far left, seeking and worshiping 'knowledge' and I know the 'decay' and well, I've been to the dark side, put it that way, I knew Christ, but I didn't, does that make sense? Well, anyway, I got serious one day and wanted to know Truth, and I started digging, and God revealed a lot to me, about a lot, then about myself, sin, etc., well, anyway, LONG STORY],

but in all this, I started seeing numerous things too and they are All related to the structure of the family–how it’s being taught, where women are concerned, and Why. Something Camus said in ‘Algeria Unveiled’ came back to me, and he said, that the west targeted the ‘liberation of women’ in Algeria [France] because if you can get ‘control’ over the women, you got the nation-state. Women aren’t set free though–the communists are notorious for this, but so are the capitalists [imperialism], because Women are the ‘core’ of society, they are the carriers of LIFE, of ethnic groups, and of religions, etc.

Now, put that on a Spiritual dimension, remember when Jesus said, you must first bind up the strong man? That has to do I think, with the OT Law [and the codes of the Hammurabi. [see http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM

The 'Biblical Roles' that are being pushed today [they are distortions, and I saw this, reading Prov 31, that has been So distorted in the West, to mean contrary to what it's supposed to be--the 'key' is in the 'verbs'--the woman was not controlled, dumbed-down, or oppressed, she could NOT have done those things at one time or another, unless she had some freedom to do so, that is where the 'they call her blessed' is about, another thing too where they distort is on that 'clothing with scarlet', I've heard so many preachers use Prov 31 to coerce women via guilt using that, its not about housework or clothing to keep warm--in a physical sense, because if it was, it would say, she clothes them in Wool, not scarlet, scarlet is a color--the color of blood--the color of Love, she clothes them in Love, Mercy, meat is the Word of God, because it says, she rises early to feed even her maidservants, well, Maid servants were the 'cooks' then, so its not meat per food, but something else, there is a LOT in Prov 31, that just blows the whole 'distortion of the child-bride wife' of the Pagan polluted teaching, out the water...],

but anyway, the ‘Biblical manhood-womanhood’ is the roles under BAEL AND ASHTORETH, no kidding, do some research,

and this is where, the ‘child-wife’ is about the pedophilia, its a distortion of ‘submission’ and that is why, the fundamentalism [distortions]in Christianity is IDENTICAL to Islam–where women and Slavery is concerned, on Slavery, Christians need to read up on what the Eved laws were in Judaism [read that in a book by a Rabbi, my husband is Orthodox Jew, not practicing but I learn a lot],

the distortions are also identical to the teachings of Mutterland [Hitler] and other types of ‘fascism’ where Nationalism, particular race, utilize the controls over women-family, and Hitler did have a type of ‘eugenics’ tree, [family trees, tree of knowledge, some other things I've seen],

the thing is, they are Very subtle and often can look so much like Christian. Another thing I saw, by accident [see note at bottom] as in a Time Life book [older one], about the Reformation Era [and prior too], about the rise of the merchant class [Walzer, Revolution of the Saints, shed some light on this for me years ago] but anyway, the use of the ‘individual’ in Christianity, was utilized by many to push ‘greed and idolatry’ but in a different way from the Papacy then, and the term, ‘ladies in waiting’ where you hear many churches call ‘single’ women today,

was ‘prostitutes’ that were kept for the knights, back in the day, they were the ‘mistresses’ and the King, was in co-hoots with that, all under of course, the wink wink eye of the church. IT gets even more interesting to read about the Witch hunts [earlier back--and the influence there with John Knox, one of our philosophical fathers of American thought, Christian esp], anyway,

about how they took statues of Mother Mary and put knives and tortured women-girls using that statue [cutting them to pieces], this was during the witch hunts, anyway–if you study the ancient beliefs of Ishtar, Queen of Heavens [it gets really interesting there], well, that is what they turned Mother Mary into, [or that is what the Queen of Heavens did--another 'question' but I see links--found those in Old Testament and also in reading about the temple shrines to Molech and the Queen of Heavens both in research where they sacrificed children and prostituted girls-boys too, and the Romans did the same, Ishtar became Venus, Greek Aphrodite, Paul mentions the temple of Artemus, Ephesus, these were shrines that women were forced to serve a year's prostitution until the monies were paid, Pliny refers to this in a letter, about a Christian woman sentenced to this, in the early church, post-Paul],

and the city, Washington D.C., read Hannah Arendt, “On Revolution”, where I recalled the history of Hellenic [root word HELL] in America, D.C. is,

the city on the Hill, modeled after

ROME.

To close [and this isn't even a fourth of what the Holy Spirit has shown me this past year], another confirmation, in Luke, where Satan tempted Jesus to worship him, go back and read what it says,

Satan said, when he showed Jesus all the kingdoms [of all time], that they were ‘his’ to give to whom he will–to his [Satan's] servants…and that is all about Power, the worship of Power, the lust for Power and Authority.

I believe, that yes, there is a type of hierarchy in Heaven’s laws, but its not the type of hierarchy on earth, the world, Satan’s kingdom [and the enmity between Satan and women--Genesis], that we Are to submit–as UNTO the LORD, not to men [key there] and also, blind submission, esp what they are teaching women, is contrary to scripture, and I have seen tons of evidence in THE WORD, to convince me to be very careful of what I hear, and concur with. [on genocide-gendercide, God punished 3, and 4 times, the Edomites, and others, for 'raping and killing women', think its Ezekiel],

and something else, I saw…watching Hannah Montana of all things, her movies, first one, the ‘cube’ [which a cube is in Mecca], and the second, the hologram of the pyramid…Babylon, well, in a concert, where all these young girls, holding up blue lights, and it dawned on me…the Temple–today, there is the ‘human’ temples, like the temples in the OT, when God does something, there is ALWAYS A COUNTERFEIT,

and what do the ‘human’ temples have, young girls, Virgins. [think about it] And what do American girls, get influenced with, from young age? Barbie dolls [and Hannah with wig, is the human barbie]…Barbie dolls, the ‘perfect female role model’ so to speak,

well, take a look, at what God showed me about that, see http://www.crystalinks.com/sumerart.html

those statues, were placed to always ‘worship’ Bael, [the house idols that Rachel took], that is why they have hands clasped and the big eyes [look at the cartoons today from Asia, all big giant eyes], and Ashtor, same thing, the female idols [the gender role model--all with emphasis on FERTILITY] the Barbie,

take that to the Role Models that the distortions are teaching, the worship of Ashtor, not Christ. This is why Paul said, not to adorn with gold, etc., only, that is, not to be like the Pagan women, whose value was her fertility and ‘sexuality’ or ‘sexual service’. In other words, the teachings of Paul, to Women, WERE REVOLUTIONARY, they were contrary to the distortions, the whole turning Jesus into a Pimp for Men [which is what they have done] using distorted submission teachings [turning women into child-brides for sex and worship of the man rather than the strong competent Christ centered mission oriented woman that God calls her to be] today. When I read tons of so called Christian ministries and blogs that emphasis a woman’s helplessness, her sexuality [service to men], her looks, her keeping house [the worship of Vesta--the idolatry via consumerism, see James, consuming on lusts], her being a child rather than an adult–

that proves to me, without a shadow of doubt, that what we have today, is not Christian [for the most part, in the West] but the prophets of Bael in the pulpit. Jesus said, when the ‘times of the Gentiles’ are full–the Gentiles, are doing Exactly, what Israel did, in the Old Testament. The problem is,

for too long, too many, have relied on ‘preachers’ rather than studying the Word of God [outside the lens of church] and therefore, Satan has had ample room, to take over…and the door was opened, way way back, when COVETING was the goal, rather than giving alms and taking up the cross [capitalism], in America, well, in Europe, when the church became ‘political’ for the goal of greed.

[this is just a summation, there is tons more...but I'm seeing it, NOTE, by that I mean, this is what the Holy Spirit, has been showing me, via prayer and the Word, even dreams. What I have learned though, is that regardless, Service, in Love, is what we are called to do, Because we are the Children of God [born again], Jesus came to Serve, not to be served, that is Submission. And it’s to all in our life–it is not about setting up ‘men’ as Kings, or Masters, that distortion, is Pagan. On that, I am convinced.] And ironically, the women in the early 1900s, who were the majority of Missionaries, Relief Workers, even prior to that, where feminism got a huge push, were of that same mind,

and they warned, even the non-Christian women like Charlotte Perkins Gilman, warned about the moral decay, that would happen, during capitalism, and the molding women, into the ‘child bride’ and the raising up of selfish and immature children, who care nothing except for acquiring goods.

They, were right, and we are living, in the fruit of that today.

Peace, Jane

I think we women need to rise up and take action to liberate our sisters. Its Time.

Interesting also that many things which were talked about in the bible were not written so we could endorse them – it is just the way things were at that time.

Also…sometimes it takes time for a person to allow God to fully penetrate their lives in all areas such as John Newton who was a slave trader and didn’t abandon the slave trade until many years after his encounter with God. When I first found this out I was astounded and I understand that he was deeply troubled when the realisation dawned of all he had done…but it wasn’t immediate.