Comments on: A leads to B ? http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/ Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:13:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Hailey http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-2/#comment-90881 Hailey Tue, 02 Mar 2010 08:51:58 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90881 Homosexuality destroys patriarchy just as much as having a more equalized view of women. Both serve to undermine the purpose of a woman and to be against it in either way is unfathomable. Patriarchy, as we know it, is a man-made image of the world- and a result of the fall..which was idolatry. Romans 1 even reflects that. Because of that passage's current emphasis, we read it with the idea that if we destroy how men and women have sexual relations with each other that God will abandon us. But in reality, that is just giving Romans 1 a psychological reading- We didn't have a proper relationship with our father (God), abandoned, so we became homosexuals, and now we are going to go commit all these other lawless acts. Psychology revolves around sex for a reason- it has to do with a narcissistic image of ourselves and relationship to other people. We become the center for all relationships and sex is the ultimate illustration of that. This is just another form of idolatry- looking to ourselves to fix things (our sexual orientation, or gender relationships, our parental relationships, etc. etc.) so that we can love God (so that He does not abandon us to all of those misdeeds), rather than looking to God and seeing who we are in light of the gospel. When that is done, all else falls to place. Because that takes a realization that everything is under a curse- that means, everything we live amongst is perverse, lustfully against, groaning, against nature. Because this is not how God originally created nature. Not our relationships to creation, our offspring, our gender relationships, or the work we do. God's original creation was so incredibly wholesome, unified, beautiful, and perfect that we cannot possibly understand how vile it all became after the fall in comparison. But we have hope, for we have the gospel, which redeems and allows us to live in unity with Christ by the means of the law of love. It's not about the current creation that we created by our fall, the consequences seen in our curses, nor the patriarchy in man's name. It's about the Creator. It's not about the current relationships, rules, governments, sicknesses, sorrows, etc. It's about how we live amongst them. The gospel is for all people and cultures. The gospel is able to transform, and it does. It changes our love, which is an inward condition of the heart that is poured outward. So if the gospel is taken to a matriarchal culture, how does that look in their culture? You allow the Gospel to take root in their hearts. With a proper understanding of God and them in light of that, their culture will undoubtedly be affected, but will it look like westernized christianity? No! and why should it? They shouldn't be required to have their male and female relationships function like they do here... we're not happy with it like this anyways (i am speaking of the strict complementarian views). Doesn't God judge the intentions of our hearts, after all? Why do we proselytize our faith so much and claim it to be the biblical way- God created an order with the Jews that was only for the Jews. We learn from it. We don't completely throw it out...it is still helpful for us to examine. But God gave us a new order of faith that is very simple and can easily adapt to any culture. Why do we make this so hard? I go back and read Jesus' words in the gospels and I see this idea time and time again. It makes me sad for Christians that they are missing out on so much of the richness of the gospel. (sorry for typos... i'm not proofreading. i'm a busy college student!) Homosexuality destroys patriarchy just as much as having a more equalized view of women. Both serve to undermine the purpose of a woman and to be against it in either way is unfathomable. Patriarchy, as we know it, is a man-made image of the world- and a result of the fall..which was idolatry. Romans 1 even reflects that. Because of that passage’s current emphasis, we read it with the idea that if we destroy how men and women have sexual relations with each other that God will abandon us. But in reality, that is just giving Romans 1 a psychological reading- We didn’t have a proper relationship with our father (God), abandoned, so we became homosexuals, and now we are going to go commit all these other lawless acts. Psychology revolves around sex for a reason- it has to do with a narcissistic image of ourselves and relationship to other people. We become the center for all relationships and sex is the ultimate illustration of that. This is just another form of idolatry- looking to ourselves to fix things (our sexual orientation, or gender relationships, our parental relationships, etc. etc.) so that we can love God (so that He does not abandon us to all of those misdeeds), rather than looking to God and seeing who we are in light of the gospel. When that is done, all else falls to place. Because that takes a realization that everything is under a curse- that means, everything we live amongst is perverse, lustfully against, groaning, against nature. Because this is not how God originally created nature. Not our relationships to creation, our offspring, our gender relationships, or the work we do. God’s original creation was so incredibly wholesome, unified, beautiful, and perfect that we cannot possibly understand how vile it all became after the fall in comparison. But we have hope, for we have the gospel, which redeems and allows us to live in unity with Christ by the means of the law of love. It’s not about the current creation that we created by our fall, the consequences seen in our curses, nor the patriarchy in man’s name. It’s about the Creator. It’s not about the current relationships, rules, governments, sicknesses, sorrows, etc. It’s about how we live amongst them.

The gospel is for all people and cultures. The gospel is able to transform, and it does. It changes our love, which is an inward condition of the heart that is poured outward. So if the gospel is taken to a matriarchal culture, how does that look in their culture? You allow the Gospel to take root in their hearts. With a proper understanding of God and them in light of that, their culture will undoubtedly be affected, but will it look like westernized christianity? No! and why should it? They shouldn’t be required to have their male and female relationships function like they do here… we’re not happy with it like this anyways (i am speaking of the strict complementarian views). Doesn’t God judge the intentions of our hearts, after all? Why do we proselytize our faith so much and claim it to be the biblical way- God created an order with the Jews that was only for the Jews. We learn from it. We don’t completely throw it out…it is still helpful for us to examine. But God gave us a new order of faith that is very simple and can easily adapt to any culture. Why do we make this so hard? I go back and read Jesus’ words in the gospels and I see this idea time and time again. It makes me sad for Christians that they are missing out on so much of the richness of the gospel.

(sorry for typos… i’m not proofreading. i’m a busy college student!)

]]> By: Jane http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-2/#comment-90492 Jane Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:21:07 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90492 "Christians for Biblical Equality does not support same-sex relationships and so for this reason we would discourage conversation on this topic on this blog. The site exists so people can discuss the issues re gender equality in the home and promote the use of everyone’s God-given spiritual gifts in church life." Going to introduce something here [hear me out, its not what you think] about why this issue, particularly in regards to the relationship with Misogyny, is more relevant, and something mentioned in Revelations about the 'effeminate' confirmed what I was seeing. I first saw the relationship between homosexuality and patriarchy when I was working in the secular 'radical feminist-far leftist' circles [and I was part of that community for years, and did even work on GLBT rights/human rights, so I did a lot of research there too, on that whole lifestyle.] This was when I was revolting against a lot of the Christian culture, and questioning a lot. When it came to the issue of transgenders, and violence, particularly women to women, that is when I started seeing the underlying things that are so much like the misogyny you see in patriarchy. And I am convinced, homosexuality, is really, the end fruit, of Misogyny. [yes it may sound like an oxymoron, particularly where lesbians are concerned but its true--because all in all, it is the psychological hatred of any thing 'remotely female', meaning, feminine]. They will say its 'constructs' and they are, partly right, when its in its foundations, the shift from patriarchal constructs, particularly roles---but here is where its more related, like a coin, two faces, but one coin. And the first hint of this is in fact, the repulsion of motherhood Because of the 'devalue' that motherhood and child bearing has, which is started by the mentality of the patriarchs. The Word confirmed this for me, in Deut or Exodus I believe, where God lays out the levels of the curses, that come upon society that over time, generational, rebels against God's laws of love. The end, He says, the men will turn on the wives-women, and after that, the last one, the women will eat their young. What I found too, about Sodom and Gommarah [or is it Gommorah], and notice the root word in Gomer, Gomer in the book of Hosea I believe [don't have my Bible right here with me], and the VIOLENCE, that and the VIOLENCE in the days of Noah. In all cases, violence includes sexual violence [rape] and a good example, today would be the Congo, 80% Christian btw, where women and girls [toddlers even] have been raped with impunity in the most horrid ways that its actually a form of Genocide against women [and we can thank patriarchy for that as well as capitalism--for minerals and geo-political racism] but anyway, now they are raping 'men', in high numbers, violence and sexual violence at its full fruit. [same thing with Afghanistan, an extreme patriarchal society where its custom for young boys to be taken and forced into being sex slaves for men]. And in segregated societies, there tends to be a high level of lesbianism [though its secret due to the laws of theocracy] as well as woman to woman Violence. I found in my years of research that the more patriarchal [and religious esp] and misogynist a culture or society is, the more violent and the more homosexuality is increased...not the opposite. Because when women are hated, when women are devalued and deemed as nothing but 'chattel' then the evolution of this hatred becomes more violent. And that violence is Internalized. This is where the 'self-hate' comes from, and its a type of double sword self hate...hard to explain but then I haven't written on this much, because it IS so controversial [in both views on homosexuality]. And a lot of it is also, the hate of 'life' meaning, the hatred of nurturing life, or giving life--and the obsession to control women's sexuality is also a huge part of that hatred, though its said to be 'pro-life' often its really about the hate of life, wanting the 'control over the womb', male control that is, which is fed from misogyny as well. [you see this when you look into the misogyny in the controls men have done through the centuries in their attempts to control childbirth and rob that space and power from women]. Well, anyway, there is a whole lot more to this [it would take a book and a lot of studies to go with it] and I don't have time to put it all here right now but this is what I saw, during those years, and when I came to reading in the Word, I saw it on that spiritual level, so I believe firmly that homosexuality is actually a fruit-result of the end fruits of extreme patriarchy and misogyny, as well as 'class' and division of labor and the worth that is contributed to humans in society, particularly that of gender. So, rather than the link being women as pastors to homosexuality, I would say, its the opposite, the more women are forcefully secluded and controlled including their wombs, the more homosexuality will not only surface but will thrive, and become more prevalent and violent. To the point where men will become effeminate to revolt against the extreme patriarchal roles [that then have become divisive to men who don't fit into the machismo role as well as other men] yet at the same time, maintaining their hatred of the weaker, or what they deem as the weaker, meaning women, by 'remolding the image of female' and also with women revolting against the extreme patriarchal and also remolding the image of female... Both, are attempts at remolding the 'image' of female into MALE, or male attributes [with the effeminate its the female 'sexual' with the male characteristics]--all due to the devalue of the female made in God's image. [probably could have said that better--but its the best I can do for now, its not my area of expertise] Jane “Christians for Biblical Equality does not support same-sex relationships and so for this reason we would discourage conversation on this topic on this blog. The site exists so people can discuss the issues re gender equality in the home and promote the use of everyone’s God-given spiritual gifts in church life.”

Going to introduce something here [hear me out, its not what you think] about why this issue, particularly in regards to the relationship with Misogyny, is more relevant, and something mentioned in Revelations about the ‘effeminate’ confirmed what I was seeing.

I first saw the relationship between homosexuality and patriarchy when I was working in the secular ‘radical feminist-far leftist’ circles [and I was part of that community for years, and did even work on GLBT rights/human rights, so I did a lot of research there too, on that whole lifestyle.] This was when I was revolting against a lot of the Christian culture, and questioning a lot.

When it came to the issue of transgenders, and violence, particularly women to women, that is when I started seeing the underlying things that are so much like the misogyny you see in patriarchy. And I am convinced, homosexuality, is really, the end fruit, of Misogyny. [yes it may sound like an oxymoron, particularly where lesbians are concerned but its true--because all in all, it is the psychological hatred of any thing 'remotely female', meaning, feminine]. They will say its ‘constructs’ and they are, partly right, when its in its foundations, the shift from patriarchal constructs, particularly roles—but here is where its more related, like a coin, two faces, but one coin. And the first hint of this is in fact, the repulsion of motherhood Because of the ‘devalue’ that motherhood and child bearing has, which is started by the mentality of the patriarchs.

The Word confirmed this for me, in Deut or Exodus I believe, where God lays out the levels of the curses, that come upon society that over time, generational, rebels against God’s laws of love. The end, He says, the men will turn on the wives-women, and after that, the last one, the women will eat their young.

What I found too, about Sodom and Gommarah [or is it Gommorah], and notice the root word in Gomer, Gomer in the book of Hosea I believe [don't have my Bible right here with me], and the VIOLENCE, that and the VIOLENCE in the days of Noah. In all cases, violence includes sexual violence [rape] and a good example, today would be the Congo, 80% Christian btw, where women and girls [toddlers even] have been raped with impunity in the most horrid ways that its actually a form of Genocide against women [and we can thank patriarchy for that as well as capitalism--for minerals and geo-political racism] but anyway, now they are raping ‘men’, in high numbers, violence and sexual violence at its full fruit. [same thing with Afghanistan, an extreme patriarchal society where its custom for young boys to be taken and forced into being sex slaves for men]. And in segregated societies, there tends to be a high level of lesbianism [though its secret due to the laws of theocracy] as well as woman to woman Violence.

I found in my years of research that the more patriarchal [and religious esp] and misogynist a culture or society is, the more violent and the more homosexuality is increased…not the opposite. Because when women are hated, when women are devalued and deemed as nothing but ‘chattel’ then the evolution of this hatred becomes more violent.

And that violence is Internalized. This is where the ’self-hate’ comes from, and its a type of double sword self hate…hard to explain but then I haven’t written on this much, because it IS so controversial [in both views on homosexuality]. And a lot of it is also, the hate of ‘life’ meaning, the hatred of nurturing life, or giving life–and the obsession to control women’s sexuality is also a huge part of that hatred,

though its said to be ‘pro-life’ often its really about the hate of life, wanting the ‘control over the womb’, male control that is, which is fed from misogyny as well. [you see this when you look into the misogyny in the controls men have done through the centuries in their attempts to control childbirth and rob that space and power from women].

Well, anyway, there is a whole lot more to this [it would take a book and a lot of studies to go with it] and I don’t have time to put it all here right now but this is what I saw, during those years, and when I came to reading in the Word, I saw it on that spiritual level,

so I believe firmly that homosexuality is actually a fruit-result of the end fruits of extreme patriarchy and misogyny, as well as ‘class’ and division of labor and the worth that is contributed to humans in society, particularly that of gender. So, rather than the link being women as pastors to homosexuality,

I would say, its the opposite, the more women are forcefully secluded and controlled including their wombs, the more homosexuality will not only surface but will thrive, and become more prevalent and violent. To the point where men will become effeminate to revolt against the extreme patriarchal roles [that then have become divisive to men who don't fit into the machismo role as well as other men] yet at the same time, maintaining their hatred of the weaker, or what they deem as the weaker, meaning women, by ‘remolding the image of female’ and also with women revolting against the extreme patriarchal and also remolding the image of female…

Both, are attempts at remolding the ‘image’ of female into MALE, or male attributes [with the effeminate its the female 'sexual' with the male characteristics]–all due to the devalue of the female made in God’s image.

[probably could have said that better--but its the best I can do for now, its not my area of expertise]

Jane

]]> By: Liz http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-2/#comment-90435 Liz Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:09:45 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90435 Wonderful comments Dave. I hope many will read your blog as it is an excellent article (one of many there) When reading such clear arguments, one wonders why the hierarchy position gets so much attention. Maybe it is because people don't look into things for themselves and just trust others to do the research...'we all choose our own experts' Wonderful comments Dave. I hope many will read your blog as it is an excellent article (one of many there) When reading such clear arguments, one wonders why the hierarchy position gets so much attention. Maybe it is because people don’t look into things for themselves and just trust others to do the research…’we all choose our own experts’

]]> By: Dave http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-2/#comment-90433 Dave Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:10:24 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90433 “ikewise, most homosexuals and lesbians are quite clear that they didn’t “choose” same-sex attraction, but it hit when puberty hit…and they hated it, and felt like they were all messed up and didn’t want it, and yet…there it was. Not a choice. A way they were wired, for lack of a better term." There has never been a "gay gene" found. Homosexuality is not a natural part of God's creation before the fall. However, I appreciate that for homosexual people same sex attraction was not something that ALL of them chose and was/is something that SOME hate. However, the way they are 'wired' is no different to me, who when I hit puberty had all sorts of hetrosexual thoughts and fantasies that I felt guilty about and had little choice over! The alcoholic does not usually choose alcoholism. Lets not confuse "no choice" with "good". None of us can simply choose not to sin, but that does not make it good. I have heard similar arguments that suggested that because some men cannot stop masturbating it must be ok/natural. Seriously, if we could stop sinning why did Jesus have to die? So, I see myself in the same position as a homosexual person and therefore, I do not judge them and try to love them. There is an article on the CBMW blog on the slippery slope issue. I put a response at our blog, www.achurchinryde.com/blog for those who are interested! “ikewise, most homosexuals and lesbians are quite clear that they didn’t “choose” same-sex attraction, but it hit when puberty hit…and they hated it, and felt like they were all messed up and didn’t want it, and yet…there it was. Not a choice. A way they were wired, for lack of a better term.”

There has never been a “gay gene” found. Homosexuality is not a natural part of God’s creation before the fall. However, I appreciate that for homosexual people same sex attraction was not something that ALL of them chose and was/is something that SOME hate. However, the way they are ‘wired’ is no different to me, who when I hit puberty had all sorts of hetrosexual thoughts and fantasies that I felt guilty about and had little choice over! The alcoholic does not usually choose alcoholism. Lets not confuse “no choice” with “good”. None of us can simply choose not to sin, but that does not make it good. I have heard similar arguments that suggested that because some men cannot stop masturbating it must be ok/natural. Seriously, if we could stop sinning why did Jesus have to die?

So, I see myself in the same position as a homosexual person and therefore, I do not judge them and try to love them.

There is an article on the CBMW blog on the slippery slope issue. I put a response at our blog, http://www.achurchinryde.com/blog for those who are interested!

]]> By: em http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-2/#comment-90412 em Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:53:41 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90412 I am really enjoying a lively discussion. I have read Sister Prudence Allen's two volume work recently on the Concept of Women. She explains how complementarity can fall in to a polarity theory. Actually from what I am reading I am not sure that CBMW are understanding what true complementarity is. After reading Prudence Allen I am actually finding I do not like the term Egalitarian for I am really beginning to belive that CBE are really the true complementarians in that they believe in equal dignity and significant differences whereas CBMW seem to have fallen into a "fractional complementarity" understanding- not viewing the man and women as wholes in themsleves but that each can only provide half a person, that the man provides rationality, and woman passivity etc. I really think both sides need to read Sister Allen's work- I think we need to clear the air and come to a clear understanding of terms. Additionally all need to read Rebecca Groothius "Women Caught Inbetween Traditionalism and Feminism". I am really enjoying a lively discussion. I have read Sister Prudence Allen’s two volume work recently on the Concept of Women. She explains how complementarity can fall in to a polarity theory. Actually from what I am reading I am not sure that CBMW are understanding what true complementarity is. After reading Prudence Allen I am actually finding I do not like the term Egalitarian for I am really beginning to belive that CBE are really the true complementarians in that they believe in equal dignity and significant differences whereas CBMW seem to have fallen into a “fractional complementarity” understanding- not viewing the man and women as wholes in themsleves but that each can only provide half a person, that the man provides rationality, and woman passivity etc. I really think both sides need to read Sister Allen’s work- I think we need to clear the air and come to a clear understanding of terms. Additionally all need to read Rebecca Groothius “Women Caught Inbetween Traditionalism and Feminism”.

]]> By: Liz http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-2/#comment-90388 Liz Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:43:47 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90388 Admin. note: Whatever we think of homosexuals or homosexual practice, the point of the post was not to discuss those issues but to point out that the comparison of women and homosexuals (of either gender I assume) as suitable preachers is not a fair/equal comparison. One is about who the person is - the other is about what the person practises (that was who the original statement referred to - a practising homosexual person) Christians for Biblical Equality does not support same-sex relationships and so for this reason we would discourage conversation on this topic on this blog. The site exists so people can discuss the issues re gender equality in the home and promote the use of everyone's God-given spiritual gifts in church life. As already has been written, we would not condemn a person because of their lifestyle choices - we separate the actions from the person and genuinely love each person equally. Admin. note:
Whatever we think of homosexuals or homosexual practice, the point of the post was not to discuss those issues but to point out that the comparison of women and homosexuals (of either gender I assume) as suitable preachers is not a fair/equal comparison. One is about who the person is – the other is about what the person practises (that was who the original statement referred to – a practising homosexual person)

Christians for Biblical Equality does not support same-sex relationships and so for this reason we would discourage conversation on this topic on this blog. The site exists so people can discuss the issues re gender equality in the home and promote the use of everyone’s God-given spiritual gifts in church life.

As already has been written, we would not condemn a person because of their lifestyle choices – we separate the actions from the person and genuinely love each person equally.

]]> By: TL http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-2/#comment-90386 TL Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:47:10 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90386 <i>" Women are allowed to express their sexuality as part of a lifetime commitment to love and care for another human being (her male husband). I fail to see how two people who happen to be the same gender making that same lifetime commitment to each other is somehow sinful."</i> Being friends for life is not a sin. But regardless if one makes or does not make a covenant commitment to care for one another, if they are practicing same sex copulation, women with women and men with men, then that would be sin. IMO ” Women are allowed to express their sexuality as part of a lifetime commitment to love and care for another human being (her male husband). I fail to see how two people who happen to be the same gender making that same lifetime commitment to each other is somehow sinful.”

Being friends for life is not a sin. But regardless if one makes or does not make a covenant commitment to care for one another, if they are practicing same sex copulation, women with women and men with men, then that would be sin. IMO

]]> By: Morna http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-2/#comment-90384 Morna Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:21:08 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90384 "ikewise, most homosexuals and lesbians are quite clear that they didn’t “choose” same-sex attraction, but it hit when puberty hit…and they hated it, and felt like they were all messed up and didn’t want it, and yet…there it was. Not a choice. A way they were wired, for lack of a better term. Because of this, I think we need to do a better job of distinguishing homosexual orientation and homosexual sex. A person doesn’t choose to be oriented towards same-sex attraction. There is no sin in being oriented towards same-sex attraction. No one can help such a thing. For whatever reason, it happens. Whereas a person *does* choose to engage in sexual activity, godly or ungodly. That is where the sin is—when we engage in activities that are not appropriate for followers of Christ. " A very good point. However, there is an appropriate outlet for female sexuality: monogamous marriage. Women are allowed to express their sexuality as part of a lifetime commitment to love and care for another human being (her male husband). I fail to see how two people who happen to be the same gender making that same lifetime commitment to each other is somehow sinful. "Because the Bible says so" isn't enough. That's the same argument used by complimentarians to denigrate women. We know well that the Bible can be mistranslated and misinterpreted. We need to have enough courage to go back to the Hebrew and Greek texts, consider the historical and literary context of the "anti-homosexual" verses, and be ready to change our beliefs and behavior if we find out we've been wrong. If we don't, we run the risk of doing the same damage to our gay brothers and sisters that complimentarians do to egalitarians. If anyone wants some more info on this, consider checking out www.whosoever.com/bible “ikewise, most homosexuals and lesbians are quite clear that they didn’t “choose” same-sex attraction, but it hit when puberty hit…and they hated it, and felt like they were all messed up and didn’t want it, and yet…there it was. Not a choice. A way they were wired, for lack of a better term.

Because of this, I think we need to do a better job of distinguishing homosexual orientation and homosexual sex. A person doesn’t choose to be oriented towards same-sex attraction. There is no sin in being oriented towards same-sex attraction. No one can help such a thing. For whatever reason, it happens. Whereas a person *does* choose to engage in sexual activity, godly or ungodly. That is where the sin is—when we engage in activities that are not appropriate for followers of Christ. ”

A very good point. However, there is an appropriate outlet for female sexuality: monogamous marriage. Women are allowed to express their sexuality as part of a lifetime commitment to love and care for another human being (her male husband). I fail to see how two people who happen to be the same gender making that same lifetime commitment to each other is somehow sinful.

“Because the Bible says so” isn’t enough. That’s the same argument used by complimentarians to denigrate women. We know well that the Bible can be mistranslated and misinterpreted. We need to have enough courage to go back to the Hebrew and Greek texts, consider the historical and literary context of the “anti-homosexual” verses, and be ready to change our beliefs and behavior if we find out we’ve been wrong. If we don’t, we run the risk of doing the same damage to our gay brothers and sisters that complimentarians do to egalitarians.

If anyone wants some more info on this, consider checking out http://www.whosoever.com/bible

]]> By: Trevor http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2009/10/a-leads-to-b/comment-page-1/#comment-90377 Trevor Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:13:37 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=664#comment-90377 I don't think that you are rambling at all Molly. The point that you are making is very clear and I commend you for it. All that you have said makes perfect sense and I find myself in agreement with you. We, as egalitarians who are very aware of discrimination practiced for wrong reasons, should also be alerted to the issue that you have raised in respect to spiritually gifted persons who may well have a homosexual orientation, but are not engaging in same sex activity. I don’t think that you are rambling at all Molly. The point that you are making is very clear and I commend you for it. All that you have said makes perfect sense and I find myself in agreement with you. We, as egalitarians who are very aware of discrimination practiced for wrong reasons, should also be alerted to the issue that you have raised in respect to spiritually gifted persons who may well have a homosexual orientation, but are not engaging in same sex activity.

]]>