The CBE Scroll

Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality

Letter to a friend: Paul Washer Sermon

Written by: on Wednesday, March 17, 2010

This was my first response to a friend who was inspired by the American revivalist preacher, Paul Washer, in his series on “What it takes to be a man.”  My friend and I are still discussing this issue, but you may wish to comment after viewing, or listening to the sermon content yourself here.

Managed to track down the ‘U tube’ audio of the “What it takes to be a man” message. Pleased to hear that it had such an impact for you personally. The message was in 6×10 minute segments and took a bit of getting through but I got the gist of it. While I can appreciate the guy’s sincerity, passion and belief that this is what the Bible teaches, I did find it very stereotypical, with constant references to manliness and his love for hunting etc. He is right on the money about the western mindset of dating and of how unbiblical and harmful it can be in the development of responsible relationships. Where I strongly disagree with him though is on the issue of men being designed to lead women and to be the sole provider and protector. His premise that until a man is willing to lead and provide for a woman he should not be considering dating a woman, leaves men with the notion that they are destined by God to lead and women are designed to simply follow their lead.

Granted, for some men, possibly yourself included, this seems to give a real purpose for the male role within the marriage, and a lot of what he has to say in that respect is very admirable, but I still hold to the view that “in Christ” men and women are equals which means that each shares the responsibility of leading, discipling and parenting children. Both should be respected and listened to by one another first, and then by the children as they are nurtured within the home. Both have opinions to bring to the table as together they seek to have a home that glorifies the Lord. The danger of this teaching, which I have to admit is very popular, is that a woman can be relegated to the pretty, empty headed and spiritually deficient little thing whose only job in life is to take care of her man by always being there for him and making sure that both she and the home is a place that is attractive to her husband so that he is not tempted to stray.

I will be the first to admit that men, as a general rule, do not step up to the plate and take responsibility within the home, and in that respect messages like this are very timely to motivate men. My concern is that as admirable and passionate as this sounds, it is still culturally rather than biblically motivated. These ideas of family are dated and probably belong in the post war, 1950′s family TV show era. True Biblical injunctions on the other hand are timeless and supra-cultural in that they transcend all cultural, ethnic and class settings. Big words and ideas but what they mean is this; Christ came to fully redeem both men and women from the effects of the curse. Life and work doesn’t have to be difficult and a hard slog as Paul Washer suggests. We are meant to be “in Christ” (as men and women), walking in the spirit, operating from a position of “rest” and total reliance on Him. Both genders are to cultivate the fruit of the Spirit and display a “considering one another, provoking one another to love and good deeds” kind of atmosphere within the home. This can only happen when couples are prepared to be mutually submissive to one another.

So….preparing couples for marriage should include the kind of teaching that doesn’t condemn us to grit our teeth and live out the effects of the curse but should entice and excite us to live in the “new way”, the way of the Spirit, that sets us free and allows both men and women to be all that God wants them to be. The only thing that isn’t easy about this is that we each must give up the rights to our own life and allow Jesus to call the tune. If we are both doing that then it is a win-win situation because each of us is willing to submit to the will of God for our family and for each other. In that sense we can break free of cultural expectations, which exist even in the church, and carve out our own destiny under the guidance of God and His Word. When married couples have the same Christ centred expectations of their relationship, marriage and Kingdom living there is nothing that will create a need for one to have leadership responsibility over the other.

14 Comments »

Comment by LKH

March 18, 2010 @ 12:48 am

A very gracious response… I most appreciate the last paragraph on living the new way, not bound to the effects of the fall.

Comment by Lionel Woods

March 18, 2010 @ 9:10 am

Hello,

I had been a fan of Washer for years. I was a black guy coming out of extreme word of faith pentecostalism being introduced to “Reformed Theology” and all it entails. Washer was on my list of approved preachers along with all of the CBMW teachers LOL. I have come to another conclusion about two years ago now and it really rests on this notion of the New Covenant. If we really embrace the fact that as a new creation we are to live out our purpose before the fall (which no such leadership/headship/battle of the sexes exists)then and only then can this discussion go further. I have been deemed a heretic for such a position.

Thanks for this post, it is my first time commenting. I like the previous commentor love the last paragraph.

Comment by Shawna R. B. Atteberry

March 18, 2010 @ 10:33 am

This is a very thoughtful, gracious post.

Thank you for the last paragraph that Christians do not live under the curse after the fall: we live in Christ who has given us freedom to live a new life. I think in Christian circles there is far too much emphasis on the curse and not enough on what it means to be free in Christ, especially in relationships. We have to continue to talk about the new life we have in Christ and present people with a vision of the world redeemed from the fall and the curse. This post does a great job of that.

Comment by Deborah

March 18, 2010 @ 1:01 pm

Trevor,

Thanks for a good example of how to succinctly and respectfully witness to the truth and harmonious blessings of equality as well as self-acceptance amid our diversities of personality and style (not expecting all men to become hunters, etc.).

It is good to see all the new names here!

Deb

Comment by Trevor

March 18, 2010 @ 7:31 pm

Thank you all for your comments. The conversation is ongoing and it has become a little drawn out but the guy is a friend and is genuinely looking into the issues even though his family of origin stuff makes it difficult for him.

I am posting his further questions and my responses on our own blog which can be accessed at, http://onesykes.blogspot.com/

You may find it interesting as he puts forward the usual responses like,

There is something that my soul, as a man, is finding the approach you are suggesting is really robbing me of my manhood. I am continuing to hold it up to the Lord. The odd supporting scripture floats past my mind. But I do not have the time at present to devote to it.

Also,

If you have discovered a greater truth and I am sure it is right I will adopt it. But I am having a lot of trouble with the concept. Women just do not look right in khaki and blokes cannot feed babies. We are different.

Comment by Marjorie

March 20, 2010 @ 5:35 pm

It is true that some women are waiting to be discovered and yes, rescued by a knight in shining armor who will carry them away to “happily ever after.” But there are a great many others who are not princesses and want to share their brains as well as their beauty with a man who makes them a true partner in the tasks and joys of life. And is it fair to expect every man to be a rough-and-ready adventurer? Just because he prefers reading to skiing and concerts to gun shows does not necessarily mean something inside him is dead.

“Susan’s” husband, a good-hearted, hardworking man, has been diagnosed at an early age with Alzheimer’s. Because of their partnership in the marriage, she knows how to buy a car, hire repairmen for their rural property, make end-of-life decisions and all the other things that will make life go on for them. He still adores her, but the time will probably come when he no longer knows her. Which brings me to the question, What happens to the “little women” who have been protected and provided for, tended to like delicate flowers?

Comment by Jennie Dugan

March 24, 2010 @ 2:36 am

Thank you for letting us join in your discussion with your friend. The piece he misses, and so many miss, is how incredibly evolved your relationship becomes when both are first for God and then for each other. The closer to God we both get, and the more we work together on our mission for God, the stronger we both get. My husband seems stronger as both a man and a human being to me, and I have no doubt I seem stronger to him, which is appealing to both of us. He is extremely manly in my eyes, and I believe he sees me as extremely womanly. We’ve never been happier, and I can’t imagine anything healthier for a marriage. What our gifts are and what we actually do as part of our mission is completely separate from who was born male and who was born female. There are times he leads; there are times I lead. At all times, we submit to each other, because of that evolving relationship that starts first with God.

Comment by Lydia

March 27, 2010 @ 12:53 pm

I like Washer a lot. He has a serious blind spot about gender roles, though. But he certainly preaches the Gospel and shows the shallowness of Christendom in the West.

The testimony of his wife is incredible. She got saved after being a missionary for about 12 years.

However, her teaching on Esther is extra biblical and quite silly.

I worry for folks stuck in this mindset. Washer has a debilitating disease and she could end up being the family leader/provider by default. Would that make him less than a ‘man’ in his eyes? Do they not think these things through before they teach them?

Comment by Christensen Low

March 29, 2010 @ 8:38 am

@Lionel

I hear you, bro. I come from Texas, but even up here in Chicago, I often feel as if I am being labeled as a heretic. When I went to Moody, I was constantly challenged for my egalitarian views. So, just wanted to say that I respect you for standing up for what you believe is God’s will as displayed in the Bible. As a man in our society, I know it is hard to stand up and say, “yes, women are my equal in every way. Yes, they too can lead. They too are gifted equally by God.”. I am often asked why I am an egalitarian when I’m a man (why do you bother standing up for women’s rights when you aren’t a woman?). Because of this, we are labeled as less than a man (which only bothers me in how this makes Christians treat me). Less valued. It’s hard being counter-cultural. But we must be patient and still stand for the Truth. Right?

Comment by Christensen Low

March 29, 2010 @ 8:50 am

@Trevor

I truly enjoy hearing the diversity of voices in this. Before seeking out a group like this, I thought that what I was seeing in the Bible was “unique”, and it bothered me to think that I might be “heretical”. So, it helps to hear others struggling to know God’s best in this issue. I hope and pray that we will always be humble and hear what God wants us to hear.

I like your response to your friend. My brothers are both very strong complementarians. They feel that they are loving and supporting their girlfriends by being leaders. I can respect this, but I don’t see it as benefitting their relationships (or them personally). And, actually, they are very “soft” complementarians and not that “manly” to begin with. But history has shown the ill-effects of the extremes that societies put on “manliness”.

But I like what you say in the third paragraph. Yes, the Bible is full of passages that exhort the believer. And there isn’t a list for men and then for women. Maybe I’m missing something, but where in Ephesians 4 is there mention that being called to be a prophet, pastor, teacher depends on gender? There isn’t a caveat there that says – “Okay, this list applies to men only.” The Bible seems to be full of these “ommissions”. Why? Because, as Ephesians 4 says, we are all one in Christ! Thank God! Because I enjoy being an equal with my sisters!

Comment by Michelle

April 19, 2010 @ 3:04 pm

@Trevor

I truly enjoy hearing the diversity of voices in this. Before seeking out a group like this, I thought that what I was seeing in the Bible was “unique”, and it bothered me to think that I might be “heretical”. So, it helps to hear others struggling to know God’s best in this issue. I hope and pray that we will always be humble and hear what God wants us to hear.

I like your response to your friend. My brothers are both very strong complementarians. They feel that they are loving and supporting their girlfriends by being leaders. I can respect this, but I don’t see it as benefitting their relationships (or them personally). And, actually, they are very “soft” complementarians and not that “manly” to begin with. But history has shown the ill-effects of the extremes that societies put on “manliness”.

But I like what you say in the third paragraph. Yes, the Bible is full of passages that exhort the believer. And there isn’t a list for men and then for women. Maybe I’m missing something, but where in Ephesians 4 is there mention that being called to be a prophet, pastor, teacher depends on gender? There isn’t a caveat there that says – “Okay, this list applies to men only.” The Bible seems to be full of these “ommissions”. Why? Because, as Ephesians 4 says, we are all one in Christ! Thank God! Because I enjoy being an equal with my sisters!

Comment by Ravi

April 23, 2010 @ 10:15 am

Interesting article. One of the things that is missed in this article is the real life of a believer. Although we are born of the spirit, yet we are not transformed overnight. Transformation takes time and we will NOT be totally perfect on the face of this earth. This is the reason why we are to rely on the Holy Spirit of God everyday. Our life is not full of victory but a mixture of victory and pain and struggle which we are to overcome with the power of God. I don’t think there is a family where both the husband and wife are equally spiritually matured to the same level. Even if they are matured to the same level, one may yield to the flesh in a weak moment and thus cause friction. It could be a child that is causing friction and the reasons go on. Life is full of distractions and we yield to the flesh even after being in the Lord. Bible is full of such examples (Peter was rebuked by Paul, Elijah ran from Jezabel, Paul had a thorn in the flesh etc.). This does not mean that we are helpless but God lifts us up continuously as we look to him.

Coming to the equality of husband and wife. Scripture is clear they are equal but they do not perform the same roles. Husband may work and earn but wife may be a homemaker but that does not make them unequal. In military there is a leader and followers. What can a leader do without followers? Followers are not less than leader. So why do we get this notion that women should always do and share the very same things men do?

The article said and I quote,
“…a woman can be relegated to the pretty, empty headed and spiritually deficient little thing…”. This statement seems to suggest that women are less or women are underestimated. Is this NOT pride? What if a women does nothing but support her husband. Is it not the greatest sacrifice she made? Wouldn’t Christ reward such great love that she considered herself a little thing? If Christ who is the creator of the universe can become a little thing what is wrong with a human being becoming one? Of course I see the question coming as what about men, can’t they be nothing? Yes they can be nothing too in some other areas. We always like the notion that I love you and you love me but Christ said love irrespective of whether the other person loves or not. Let a wife respect her husband and love him whether he responds back in the same measure or not and like wise husbands. This is the sacrificial living.

Comment by Trevor

April 23, 2010 @ 9:30 pm

Thank you for your comments Ravi, you have made some good points about sacrificial living so long as both men and women are expected to honour Christ in this way.

However when it comes to equal but differing in roles your illustrations, which others also often use, break down. For example, yes, in the military someone can have a superior rank but the other person may not be permanently an underling. The leadership rank is obtained by study, years of service and skill and is open to anyone who can prove themselves able to attain it. The same applies to leaders and followers. A follower, whether male or female, can work their way up to, at some point, being the leader.

In a marriage situation complementarians believe that it is God ordained that a woman, by virtue of her gender, can never attain equality in terms of mutually contributing to the running of the household. In the Western world women are rarely stayers at home because the economy often requires them to contribute to the family income. If both the husband and wife are mutually submissive and yield their will to one another and to Christ it doesn’t matter if one is thought to be more spiritually mature than the other. Egalitarians do not believe that the male, by virtue of the fact that he is a male, should be in a position to simply assume spiritual leadership. Often the male is less spiritually mature.

I don’t know whether you actually tuned in to the Paul Washer sermon Ravi but it was that specifically that I was responding to in answering my friend in the way that I did. My friend, who is a Christian, is still quite chauvinistic in his attitude to women generally. He used to boast that he felt that a woman’s place was, “to be barefoot and pregnant at the kitchen sink!” In my comment, in referring to a woman as a, “pretty, empty headed and spiritually deficient little thing,” I was using terminology that was particularly relevant to him and his attitude to his first wife. The “little” aspect was meant as a derogatory term that had more to do with being weak and defenceless than being small of stature. That is my point exactly Ravi that women are considered to be of less value and underestimated, and yes it is prideful for males to consider them to be so.

And you got it right in imagining my next question would be directed at males who should be willing to be equally self sacrificial, (ie. males too being prepared to be humbled as Christ allowed Himself to be, Philippians 2). But I would not qualify it with “some other areas” as you have done. It seems to me that that proviso gets back to the issue of assumed marriage roles and responsibilities that may well be more culturally contrived than biblically warranted or mandated.

Comment by Christensen Low

April 24, 2010 @ 11:54 pm

@Trevor…I completely agree. I have dated women who were more ambitious than me. Not that I don’t pursue my own talents, but it would have saddened me if they had to subvert the talents that God truly gave them in order to stay at home and encourage me. In living out Philippians 2:1-3, can’t I, as the husband, encourage her in her own pursuits?

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