Comments on: Womanhood and Manhood as Human Constructs http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/ Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:37:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: TL http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91635 TL Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:52:33 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91635 Deborah, 91631 <i>"says that the Prov 31 woman represents the whole Bride of Christ, virtues that are spread throughout us and exhibited as we come together in maturity."</i> The problem with a comp having such an opinion is that next he will be saying that the leadership aspects of the Prov. 31 wife are exhibited in the men only, and so forth in absurdity. A more balanced view is that IN CHRIST we are all things as God needs us to be. We are all full inheritors of all God's blessings and manifestation of the Holy Spirit as the "sons of God", and we are all lovers of God as the Bride of Christ. We are also all warriors fighting the faith and athletes running the race. And we are all children trusting in the lead of Jesus, our bigger (mature/perfect) brother. And so forth. Deborah, 91631
“says that the Prov 31 woman represents the whole Bride of Christ, virtues that are spread throughout us and exhibited as we come together in maturity.”

The problem with a comp having such an opinion is that next he will be saying that the leadership aspects of the Prov. 31 wife are exhibited in the men only, and so forth in absurdity.

A more balanced view is that IN CHRIST we are all things as God needs us to be. We are all full inheritors of all God’s blessings and manifestation of the Holy Spirit as the “sons of God”, and we are all lovers of God as the Bride of Christ. We are also all warriors fighting the faith and athletes running the race. And we are all children trusting in the lead of Jesus, our bigger (mature/perfect) brother. And so forth.

]]> By: Deborah http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91631 Deborah Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:05:51 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91631 Fyi, one pastor I appreciate (himself comp) says that the Prov 31 woman represents the whole Bride of Christ, virtues that are spread throughout us and exhibited as we come together in maturity. Fyi, one pastor I appreciate (himself comp) says that the Prov 31 woman represents the whole Bride of Christ, virtues that are spread throughout us and exhibited as we come together in maturity.

]]> By: Jane http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91576 Jane Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:12:39 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91576 ~~sigh~~ No, male birds are more colorful because female birds, are more muted/neutral to PROTECT THE NESTS WITH THE EGGS-YOUNG, scientific FACT. It's the camouflage, the blander colors [though not always, peacock females are all white] BLEND IN with the natural environment, such as browns/grays with tree bark, in parrots, blue Asiatics blend with the sky, or the green Asiatics blend with the leaves of forests, it just depends and then the huge parrots with the RED, the red is a danger warning signal, that they flash, attempting to anamorphic gender roles based on animals with a real IGNORANCE of botany-zoology and basing roles or gender on patriarchal NONSENSE, is like the evolutionist that ignores all the archeological findings that disprove the whole we are from monkey's nonsense. The animal kingdom is just too diverse and while we can learn patterns about human behavior and even social groups from hierarchy, matriarchy and matri-linear, to solitary, to base gender and society assumptions [which Darwin and other supremacists of either Gender, Class, Race, love to do] on one particular animal group, leaves a huge imbalance--the Only thing that is Common among the animal groups is that they are all connected to each other or interdependent for survival, if one is out of balance it effects the entire ecological system. And of course we see that happening today, not by God, no, but by Man's Dominion with women's help by none other than ridiculous nationalist, patriarchal and consumption capitalist idol worship... Jane ~~sigh~~ No, male birds are more colorful because female birds, are more muted/neutral to

PROTECT THE NESTS WITH THE EGGS-YOUNG,

scientific FACT.

It’s the camouflage, the blander colors [though not always, peacock females are all white] BLEND IN with the natural environment, such as browns/grays with tree bark, in parrots, blue Asiatics blend with the sky, or the green Asiatics blend with the leaves of forests, it just depends

and then the huge parrots with the RED, the red is a danger warning signal, that they flash,

attempting to anamorphic gender roles based on animals with a real IGNORANCE of botany-zoology and basing roles or gender on patriarchal NONSENSE,

is like the evolutionist that ignores all the archeological findings that disprove the whole we are from monkey’s nonsense.

The animal kingdom is just too diverse and while we can learn patterns about human behavior and even social groups from hierarchy, matriarchy and matri-linear, to solitary,

to base gender and society assumptions [which Darwin and other supremacists of either Gender, Class, Race, love to do] on one particular animal group, leaves a huge imbalance–the Only thing that is Common among the animal groups is that they are all connected to each other or interdependent for survival, if one is out of balance it effects the entire ecological system. And of course we see that happening today,

not by God, no,

but by Man’s Dominion with women’s help by none other than ridiculous nationalist, patriarchal and consumption capitalist idol worship…

Jane

]]> By: Sarah http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91573 Sarah Tue, 03 Aug 2010 22:47:16 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91573 Liz - I know it's off topic, but I've always found the animal arguments odd for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that the animal world, taken as a whole, doesn't exhibit the pattern. The female is larger and arguably dominant in many raptors, such as eagles, females of many fish and reptile species are also larger (an extreme example being the anglerfish, where the tiny male attaches himself to the female - permanently). And lets not even start discussing invertebrates. Even among animals that seem to fit the male dominance pattern the story is often more complex upon examination. Besides, why would fallen animal life be a trustworthy guide to what human society is supposed to look like? re: Proverbs 31 - I don't know how rigorous the scholarship might be, but I always liked what my OT survey prof taught at the firmly comp. Bible college I attended - that the Prov. 31 woman was a picture of a wise *person* living the principles taught in the rest of the book; in short, not just an example for women, but for everyone :-)a Liz – I know it’s off topic, but I’ve always found the animal arguments odd for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that the animal world, taken as a whole, doesn’t exhibit the pattern. The female is larger and arguably dominant in many raptors, such as eagles, females of many fish and reptile species are also larger (an extreme example being the anglerfish, where the tiny male attaches himself to the female – permanently). And lets not even start discussing invertebrates. Even among animals that seem to fit the male dominance pattern the story is often more complex upon examination. Besides, why would fallen animal life be a trustworthy guide to what human society is supposed to look like?

re: Proverbs 31 – I don’t know how rigorous the scholarship might be, but I always liked what my OT survey prof taught at the firmly comp. Bible college I attended – that the Prov. 31 woman was a picture of a wise *person* living the principles taught in the rest of the book; in short, not just an example for women, but for everyone :-)a

]]> By: Sonnet http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91572 Sonnet Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:58:57 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91572 Canadian geese alternate their positions within their v-shaped flight. Otherwise, the greater wind resistance would tire out the one in the lead position. Canadian geese alternate their positions within their v-shaped flight. Otherwise, the greater wind resistance would tire out the one in the lead position.

]]> By: Liz http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91569 Liz Mon, 02 Aug 2010 09:13:49 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91569 What a great definition of science! Another twist on the comparison with animals is as you said about geese.....some things are used but not consistently eg. male birds are often more colourful which is said to me to attract females and therefore excuses showing off by male humans. However....what about male emus which look after the young birds ? I've never heard that used to suggest that male humans should look after young humans. What a great definition of science! Another twist on the comparison with animals is as you said about geese…..some things are used but not consistently eg. male birds are often more colourful which is said to me to attract females and therefore excuses showing off by male humans. However….what about male emus which look after the young birds ? I’ve never heard that used to suggest that male humans should look after young humans.

]]> By: ls http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91568 ls Mon, 02 Aug 2010 06:13:28 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91568 It is additionally sad when the animal kinds used in examples are picked to promote, the 'wiring' they want to say is male or female, or authority structure they want to convey and promote. I've heard geese used in an example to show streamlined authority. But the geese are not used as an example for mating practices. Why is that? I think it's marketing not science, even from a secular perspective. Richard P Feynman's thoughts on a definition of science in his book "The Pleasure of Finding Things Out" is that "science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts." A 'Berean' approach would be welcomed, I think, by any teacher seeking truth, secular or Christian. It is additionally sad when the animal kinds used in examples are picked to promote, the ‘wiring’ they want to say is male or female, or authority structure they want to convey and promote. I’ve heard geese used in an example to show streamlined authority. But the geese are not used as an example for mating practices. Why is that? I think it’s marketing not science, even from a secular perspective. Richard P Feynman’s thoughts on a definition of science in his book “The Pleasure of Finding Things Out” is that “science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts.” A ‘Berean’ approach would be welcomed, I think, by any teacher seeking truth, secular or Christian.

]]> By: Liz http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91566 Liz Mon, 02 Aug 2010 04:42:14 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91566 Another aspect of looking for features of being a man or woman is that both secular and Christian 'experts' often resort to comparison with female and male animals when looking at traits. How sad for Christians to look to God's created animals and birds to learn how we should act and relate to one another. Another aspect of looking for features of being a man or woman is that both secular and Christian ‘experts’ often resort to comparison with female and male animals when looking at traits. How sad for Christians to look to God’s created animals and birds to learn how we should act and relate to one another.

]]> By: Michelle http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2010/07/womanhood-and-manhood-as-human-constructs/comment-page-1/#comment-91563 Michelle Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:38:21 +0000 http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=1093#comment-91563 @ Theresa That's a difficult question. I don't know much about the tradition of Orthodoxy. What little I have heard (more usually read) from people...Orthodoxy and Protestantism may view Christ differently? Just to let you know of a possible bump in the road if you do decide to look into other churches. Re: Protestantism, there are many different practices in terms of liturgy and all sorts of other things. Note that Protestants who do not recognize women as equals in the home and/or in the church are not necessarily "up front" about this--you can't always find that information on their website, for example. And practices even from church to church, within a denomination, can vary widely. I understand about just wanting to worship. I'm in a situation where I'm attending my husband's church. But sometimes I have the opportunity to visit another church, or take part in another activity, so it is through these other things that I am able to worship and to be fed. I do these things at the same time I work for recognition of equality and the restoration of the full image of God at my husband's church. @ Theresa

That’s a difficult question. I don’t know much about the tradition of Orthodoxy. What little I have heard (more usually read) from people…Orthodoxy and Protestantism may view Christ differently? Just to let you know of a possible bump in the road if you do decide to look into other churches.

Re: Protestantism, there are many different practices in terms of liturgy and all sorts of other things. Note that Protestants who do not recognize women as equals in the home and/or in the church are not necessarily “up front” about this–you can’t always find that information on their website, for example. And practices even from church to church, within a denomination, can vary widely.

I understand about just wanting to worship. I’m in a situation where I’m attending my husband’s church. But sometimes I have the opportunity to visit another church, or take part in another activity, so it is through these other things that I am able to worship and to be fed. I do these things at the same time I work for recognition of equality and the restoration of the full image of God at my husband’s church.

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