The CBE Scroll

Comment by Eiolgj

February 28, 2012 @ 7:50 am

I think your questions and suppositions contain lots of stereotyping. For example, my son is much more talkative and into feelings of himself and others than either of my girls, but nobody would ever think of him as a girl in the least. He was an “all boy” sort of boy, very active and into all sports. Now as an adult, he still plays basketball and lift weights. His feminine side, well, he teaches grade school, but does so as a man, bringing manly traits to the profession. He is a people person to the max, but not feminine. My husband is an extreme introvert, so he is on the other side of the spectrum, but he is hardly feminine either.

Comment by Don

February 28, 2012 @ 9:36 am

When I was growing up, I was always the largest boy. This meant that some others would challenge me to fight them as supposedly it would mean something to beat me. So I was always getting into fights, none of which I started. Finally the principal at school told me if I got into another fight, he would need to discipline me; I protested saying I did not start any of them but he was adamant. He had a problem and he was going to address it his way.

Sure enough, I got into another fight and it was yet again not me starting it. The principal paddled me, which was unjust. I learned that sometimes the victim can be made to suffer further abuse by an incorrect attribution of blame. This is very relevant in the gender debates, where arrogant men can blame women when what should happen is the men repent of their arrogance.

Comment by Trevor

February 28, 2012 @ 7:32 pm

My wife and I were only married 6 months when I went to Theological College to train for the ministry. I was previously in the military so had spent 5 years of my life in an exclusively male domain. Being so newly married I would frequently defer to my wife, like informing her of goings on at the College, or my whereabouts at any given time. Keeping her in the loop and displaying affection publicly, like kissing as we parted company. This behaviour was seen to be, “being tied to my wife’s apron strings,” and I was derisively teased about this by my fellow students. Thankfully I wasn’t unduly intimidated by such stereotypical criticism but continued to see it as valuable to be inclusive in my relationship with my wife. That accusation (ie. being tied to my wife’s apron strings) emerged again in ministry but by then I was able to use it as a teaching moment and instruct others on how hurtful it can be to engage carelessly in repeating such stereotypical statements.

BTW Don. That must have been terrible for you growing up and being placed in a position of blame when you hadn’t instigated the fights. That is incredibly unjust. To be blamed simply because of your size, rather than the principal taking the time to listen to your story and absorb the factual implications.

Comment by Trevor

February 28, 2012 @ 8:01 pm

We had the opportunity recently to hear one of our sons, who is also in ministry, preach on the issue of gender myths from Genesis 2. He was highlighting the innocence of our first parents and the fact that role expectations and gender differentiation are made far more of than is explicit in the text. By way of illustrating his point he said that he had more ‘feminine side’ traits, in terms of emotional expression, than his wife. Also that she was far more capable practically than he but that that did not threaten his biological status as a man.

The next week (at which we were unable to be present) he was dealing with the issue of how sin changed that shared responsibility and brought about the tensions that now exist between men and women. While he didn’t specifically challenge how people do church or marriage, in accord with their own previously held interpretations of this passage, he wanted his people to understand what the Genesis passages actually taught. We think that he handled the issues very sensitively.

Comment by Cheryl

February 29, 2012 @ 3:40 am

“We know a few men who talk quite a bit and some who even like shopping (this gives cause for alarm for some).”

My husband doesn’t like shopping particularly, but as long as I’ve known him he has always liked cooking. He also is a keen hunter and fisherman, which seems more acceptable to some than the cooking side of him. I’ve lost count of the number of (male) raised eyebrows I’ve seen over the years when one of us has mentioned that he often cooks….and this has by far been primarily from other Christian men. The idea that he would cook a meal and then serve it to me, his wife, seems somehow offensive to some Christian males. I hasten to add the only feedback I’ve had from Christian women is that they are envious!

Comment by Br. Jay

February 29, 2012 @ 8:36 am

I know where I am from, guys are not encouraged to show strong emotion or cry. It is seen as being weak and a sign of femininity. I find this sad and crippling.

Comment by Eiolgj

February 29, 2012 @ 9:16 am

I’m astounded that this stuff is still being talked about in this day and age. We have political men crying on TV and it is seen as a trait of a particular person, not as a weakness. Many men that I know of cook for their families, either all the time, or at least often. In a number of families I know of, the man is better at cooking and has more of an interest than the woman. Most famous chefs are men. Sure, the husband cooking was odd at some point in the past, but hey, if they were single for even three months, living in an apartment, they had to feed themselves, right? My husband and his 3 male roommates took turns, a week at a time, cooking for the group back in 1972.

So tell me really, is this an ISSUE in some churches these days?

I’ve been telling two of my adult kids who are looking for churches, “don’t go to a church that has more rules to join than the Bible has to get into heaven.” Now I’ll have to add, “don’t go to a church where they tell the man that he can’t use his God given interests and talents.”

Comment by Cheryl

February 29, 2012 @ 5:51 pm

EIOLGJ: “So tell me really, is this an ISSUE in some churches these days?”

In terms of the cooking example that I used I can’t speak for anywhere else except where I live and I do believe some of this is also cultural. In regional Australia where I am there is still very strong deliniation between what are perceived as male and female roles. The whole patriarchal mindset within many churches reinforces these roles and culture takes on a ‘spiritual’ face. It is usually not an open issue, but a subtle, unspoken issue….hence the ‘raised eyebrows’. Yes, it is changing, but very slowly.

Comment by Michelle

March 2, 2012 @ 1:13 pm

Chiming in from the Southeastern US, here. Some things have changed, even here. My husband is a gifted cook: creative, and I joke that the kitchen is his “other shop”. I don’t think he’s ever been hassled for that.

But before we got married, a woman at our old church approached my then-fiance and told him she was praying for me to become more feminine. (I wear no makeup more often than not, often don’t bother with earrings, etc.)

And there’s still a *huge* investment in the Bible being some sort of gender manual, even among some who do believe in the equality of women and men. The terms “gospel femininity” and “gospel masculinity” spring to mind.

Oh, and then there’s the friend of ours who is male and unmarried who was told he shouldn’t be so invested in teaching the youth at the church (apparently because he is not female).

Comment by Red

March 11, 2012 @ 2:21 pm

I definitely think men can get hammered for not acting within their gender, just as women can.

For one thing, guys often have a lot of “explaining” to do (to other people) if they decide to be the one who stays home with their kid while the wife goes to work. I can’t imagine how frustrating it would be to want to spend all day with your kid but have society label you as “lazy” for doing it, just because you’re the wrong gender!

Just look at popular pastors like Mark Driscoll, who make men worry that they’ll be ridiculed, laughed at and labeled “weak” if they move too close to any of the traits that Driscoll deems feminine. (Like, for instance, did you know that Driscoll once said any man who would admit to struggling with a low sex drive would be laughed at by his friends, so he should keep quiet about it?)

I feel like men sometimes have fewer choices than women. Although women may experience some ridicule from their local church if they step too far outside their female role, at least society at large is more encouraging of them breaking those traditions. Men, on the other hand, seem to have no one in their corner when they want affirmation that being “less MANLY” is okay.

Comment by Bronwen

April 3, 2012 @ 11:09 am

As the mother of a 3 year old boy, I’ve noticed very gendered approaches to children’s toys. While toys such as balls are available in a wide range of colours, it seems that any toy with a remotely domestic connotation is only available in pink or mauve – tea sets, home appliances, etc., despite the fact that I can recall the plastic tea set of my childhood being red, yellow, green and blue. It seems to me that this reinforces the notion that boys “shouldn’t do girly stuff.” After a lot of searching, we eventually found a tea set in neutral colours – together with a set of plastic “food”, he loves to “cook” us such delicacies as donuts with carrots and bananas!

Another area of gender stereotyping I’ve noticed is that people express surprise at our son’s level of language skills, “especially as boys are usually so far behind girls.” It does make me wonder to what degree boys being “behind” is about people having such low educational expectations of boys. Not so long ago, the female brain was thought to be incapable of truly logical thought and the female constitution too delicate to withstand academic rigours. Today, it seems to be the reverse – no expectation that boys are capable of academic achievement, which is becoming a self- fulfilling prophecy, as boys now fall further and further behind in our educational system.

It’s my suspicion that kids’ TV shows have more male main characters than female, but that’s something I need to sit down and study before I can be sure if I’m right.

Hopefully, we’re achieving something in the way of raising a balanced boy, who plays with cars and trains and tea sets, who likes soccer and sings his own made-up songs, loves doing crafts and reading, loves helping with the mop as much as with the toolbox, and is both very strong-willed and incredibly nurturing. How this will continue to pan out once he hits school, I have no idea!