<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Egalitarian Husbands</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/</link>
	<description>Blog voices from Christians for Biblical Equality</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 08:05:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	
	<item>
		<title>By: Don Johnson</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96666</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 16:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course, people should concentrate on not compromising God&#039;s values as revealed in the Bible.  But this involves figuring out what God&#039;s values are.

A husband IS to act like Christ as head of the church acts.  However, despite what head means today in the 21st century, the Bible reveals that Christ as head acts in serving ways, not in leading ways.  Christ is of course Lord and therefore our leader, but that is not the metaphor Paul is using in Eph and Col for what Christ as head of the church does.  This is one way to do a &quot;magic trick on oneself&quot; and use a meaning that Paul never intended, but God inspired Paul to clarify exactly what &quot;Christ as head of the church&quot; actually does and they are all serving functions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, people should concentrate on not compromising God&#8217;s values as revealed in the Bible.  But this involves figuring out what God&#8217;s values are.</p>
<p>A husband IS to act like Christ as head of the church acts.  However, despite what head means today in the 21st century, the Bible reveals that Christ as head acts in serving ways, not in leading ways.  Christ is of course Lord and therefore our leader, but that is not the metaphor Paul is using in Eph and Col for what Christ as head of the church does.  This is one way to do a &#8220;magic trick on oneself&#8221; and use a meaning that Paul never intended, but God inspired Paul to clarify exactly what &#8220;Christ as head of the church&#8221; actually does and they are all serving functions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96665</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 11:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Mia...having been married for 46 years, I assume I meet your criteria to be able to comment on marriage. I&#039;m looking at your last point where you say &#039;Would God ever ask us to actually do something sinful? I think not&#039;

Of course the answer is not, that God wouldn&#039;t require us to do something sinful but I would question the fact that you seem to equate the husband with God. Women and men are all created in the image of God and will have to give account of their lives to God. Women and men are equally imperfect so to compare one gender to God is most dangerous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mia&#8230;having been married for 46 years, I assume I meet your criteria to be able to comment on marriage. I&#8217;m looking at your last point where you say &#8216;Would God ever ask us to actually do something sinful? I think not&#8217;</p>
<p>Of course the answer is not, that God wouldn&#8217;t require us to do something sinful but I would question the fact that you seem to equate the husband with God. Women and men are all created in the image of God and will have to give account of their lives to God. Women and men are equally imperfect so to compare one gender to God is most dangerous.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mia</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96664</link>
		<dc:creator>Mia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 05:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sorry, but having a girlfriend isn&#039;t the same as marriage. I&#039;m talking about a permanent covenant union, not &quot;dating.&quot; You can try to use the dating example all you want, but it&#039;s not going to convince me as the people from the marriage bed can. 

Despite what people say, God did intend for a submission/headship marriage to exist in the Garden but after sin, humans are plagued by the harsh reality of the Fall and that&#039;s why the submission/headship marriage can be difficult. But it is still what God intended.

As far as a wife compromising her values, values can change from time to time. If a wife doesn&#039;t believe in eating meat, only she can put the food in her mouth. Her cooking food for her husband which has meat in it is just her obedience to her husband, but nothing says she has to actually eat it herself. Eating meat offered to idols is a different issue than just cooking it and eating it. Once again, the husband can eat it but no one can force a wife to actually eat the meat. Just because a husband has headship does not mean his wife becomes a robot who follows his every command. Nothing in scripture says a wife doesn&#039;t have recourse, and is always under the protection of her husband simply because she submits. And wives are to submit to husbands &quot;as unto the LORD.&quot; Meaning, a wife submits in the same way she would submit to God. Would God ever ask us to actually do something evil or sinful? I think not. 

People should focus more on not compromising Biblical teachings and principles, rather than personal arbitrary values.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but having a girlfriend isn&#8217;t the same as marriage. I&#8217;m talking about a permanent covenant union, not &#8220;dating.&#8221; You can try to use the dating example all you want, but it&#8217;s not going to convince me as the people from the marriage bed can. </p>
<p>Despite what people say, God did intend for a submission/headship marriage to exist in the Garden but after sin, humans are plagued by the harsh reality of the Fall and that&#8217;s why the submission/headship marriage can be difficult. But it is still what God intended.</p>
<p>As far as a wife compromising her values, values can change from time to time. If a wife doesn&#8217;t believe in eating meat, only she can put the food in her mouth. Her cooking food for her husband which has meat in it is just her obedience to her husband, but nothing says she has to actually eat it herself. Eating meat offered to idols is a different issue than just cooking it and eating it. Once again, the husband can eat it but no one can force a wife to actually eat the meat. Just because a husband has headship does not mean his wife becomes a robot who follows his every command. Nothing in scripture says a wife doesn&#8217;t have recourse, and is always under the protection of her husband simply because she submits. And wives are to submit to husbands &#8220;as unto the LORD.&#8221; Meaning, a wife submits in the same way she would submit to God. Would God ever ask us to actually do something evil or sinful? I think not. </p>
<p>People should focus more on not compromising Biblical teachings and principles, rather than personal arbitrary values.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Don Johnson</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96611</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96611</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marriage takes work.  It is intended also to contain bliss, but it takes work regardless.  This is true regardless what model one uses for marriage.  And marriage is a covenant between 2 sinners, who also have weak spots and blind spots and hot buttons based on their histories.  The point is that the fairytale ending of &quot;happily ever after&quot; is a fairytale that skips over a lot of details.  In my marriage I do not want to be exploited nor do I want to exploit my wife, rather my desire is for a partnership.  How this works out in detail can look very different from other marriages or similar to other marriages, but we are not confined to a supposed box where we each have roles other than those associated with the obvious physical constraints.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marriage takes work.  It is intended also to contain bliss, but it takes work regardless.  This is true regardless what model one uses for marriage.  And marriage is a covenant between 2 sinners, who also have weak spots and blind spots and hot buttons based on their histories.  The point is that the fairytale ending of &#8220;happily ever after&#8221; is a fairytale that skips over a lot of details.  In my marriage I do not want to be exploited nor do I want to exploit my wife, rather my desire is for a partnership.  How this works out in detail can look very different from other marriages or similar to other marriages, but we are not confined to a supposed box where we each have roles other than those associated with the obvious physical constraints.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96609</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 02:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting to see that this post has attracted so much more attention, particularly from Christensen, and others, in response to Mia&#039;s comment. To quote from Still&#039;s comment above:

&quot;I believe in the egalitarian perspective on marriage. However, sometimes in this blog that perspective can be presented in a rather idealistic way, imo. One problem that I’ve seen crop up in the marriages is “overfunctioning” where one partner takes more responsibility for the marriage than the other.

This kind of problem seems to increase over time as the underfunctioning partner feels less and less responsible because the overfunctioning one assumes more and more responsibility for the marriage. In other words, one partner may have a deeper emotional need for the affirmation that the marriage brings and is therefore &#039;the one most interested.&#039; &quot;

Thank you for these insights Still, this is exactly what I was driving at in my having put up this post. I totally agree with what you have to say (in the quote below) about resolving this potentially harmful aspect of an egalitarian marriage. 

&quot;All this to say that I don’t think egalitarians can simply rely upon what they are “gifted and skilled at” to determine who does what. Both partners need to also discipline themselves to feed the marriage where it needs feeding which will always I think (because we are fallen creatures) involve contributing in areas we’re not particularly gifted in.&quot;

One partner may need to recognise that they are &#039;taking the lead&#039; a bit too readily (or willingly) and the other is either coasting, or being inadvertently irresponsible. The other should either recognise, or be made aware of, the fact that they are relying too heavily on the giftedness (or willingness) of the other to keep things moving along smoothly. You are so right in saying, as quoted above, that &quot;both partners need to discipline themselves to feed the marriage where it needs feeding ... etc.&quot; Discipline is a key word here. That is one of the reasons why people  of a complementarian persuasion balk at the idea of an egalitarian marriage. They may well think that we don&#039;t work at it, or that it doesn&#039;t require the &#039;discipline&#039; of each partner tuning into what God may be requiring of them and applying that prayerfully to the joint success of marriage and family life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting to see that this post has attracted so much more attention, particularly from Christensen, and others, in response to Mia&#8217;s comment. To quote from Still&#8217;s comment above:</p>
<p>&#8220;I believe in the egalitarian perspective on marriage. However, sometimes in this blog that perspective can be presented in a rather idealistic way, imo. One problem that I’ve seen crop up in the marriages is “overfunctioning” where one partner takes more responsibility for the marriage than the other.</p>
<p>This kind of problem seems to increase over time as the underfunctioning partner feels less and less responsible because the overfunctioning one assumes more and more responsibility for the marriage. In other words, one partner may have a deeper emotional need for the affirmation that the marriage brings and is therefore &#8216;the one most interested.&#8217; &#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for these insights Still, this is exactly what I was driving at in my having put up this post. I totally agree with what you have to say (in the quote below) about resolving this potentially harmful aspect of an egalitarian marriage. </p>
<p>&#8220;All this to say that I don’t think egalitarians can simply rely upon what they are “gifted and skilled at” to determine who does what. Both partners need to also discipline themselves to feed the marriage where it needs feeding which will always I think (because we are fallen creatures) involve contributing in areas we’re not particularly gifted in.&#8221;</p>
<p>One partner may need to recognise that they are &#8216;taking the lead&#8217; a bit too readily (or willingly) and the other is either coasting, or being inadvertently irresponsible. The other should either recognise, or be made aware of, the fact that they are relying too heavily on the giftedness (or willingness) of the other to keep things moving along smoothly. You are so right in saying, as quoted above, that &#8220;both partners need to discipline themselves to feed the marriage where it needs feeding &#8230; etc.&#8221; Discipline is a key word here. That is one of the reasons why people  of a complementarian persuasion balk at the idea of an egalitarian marriage. They may well think that we don&#8217;t work at it, or that it doesn&#8217;t require the &#8216;discipline&#8217; of each partner tuning into what God may be requiring of them and applying that prayerfully to the joint success of marriage and family life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TL</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96607</link>
		<dc:creator>TL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2012 16:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Still, #96605

Good catch.  And I agree.  Both partners need to have a sense of responsibility for the whole relationship.  And where neither spouse feels especially interested in getting things done that need done, both should rise above themselves to see that things get done or get outside help.

This is why some couples get help with housecleaning, gardening, send the laundry out, etc.   Or they can work together on it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still, #96605</p>
<p>Good catch.  And I agree.  Both partners need to have a sense of responsibility for the whole relationship.  And where neither spouse feels especially interested in getting things done that need done, both should rise above themselves to see that things get done or get outside help.</p>
<p>This is why some couples get help with housecleaning, gardening, send the laundry out, etc.   Or they can work together on it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Christensen</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96606</link>
		<dc:creator>Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2012 15:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Still, I hear you about the unbalanced relationship.  My parents have this, and my step-father acts as my mom&#039;s servant.  They seem to be happy with that set-up, but it irritates me to no end when I watch them interacting (like when I watched how my father would sit in his lazy-boy and order the family around).  This is something that can easily happen in any relationship.

I like how a book I once read by Gary Chapman addressed chores and the like.  He said that a couple before or after marriage should sit down and write down the chores that would be done around the house.  Then, on the same sheet, write &quot;like&quot;, &quot;don&#039;t care&quot;, &quot;dislike&quot;.  Both partners then can check their answers to the chores, and afterwards discuss how they will handle the dividing up of the chores.  One answer is to share a chore that is disliked (or even liked).  Sometimes, it&#039;s not even a matter of who is best at something but who likes a particular chore.

Today, I cooked for my girlfriend.  I was really eager to make her a meal she would like (steak, mashed potatoes, corn bread, peach cobbler and so forth).  I had planned the meal for a few days.  We live in Korea, so it was hard getting all the ingredients and such for this meal.  To be honest, I&#039;m not that great of a cook, and it didn&#039;t turn out how I wanted it to.  But, I enjoyed doing that for her...and seeing her eye&#039;s brighten when she ate the steak (she loved that part of the meal).  I&#039;m not good at it...and I really don&#039;t enjoy cooking...but in our relationship, it is something I do for her.  And as I mentioned earlier, she hates washing dishes, but after the meal, she got up to wash them since I had cooked (and the rule we had discussed was that the person who cooks doesn&#039;t do the dishes).  But I reprieved her this time because I wanted it to be a special treat.  But for now, we are both trying to love each other even in areas that we are not necessarily gifted in or particularly like.  I could be wrong because I have never been married, but I think this is how a relationship should work where both are willing to contribute - even when they are tired or don&#039;t feel gifted in something.  And when there is an unbalance, then there should be communication in how to make the relationship more balanced.

I humbly offer what I think.  Married couples, please feel free to give me your insight.  And please pray that we continue to learn how to love each other well in God&#039;s perfect love (and give each other grace when we fall so far short of that).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still, I hear you about the unbalanced relationship.  My parents have this, and my step-father acts as my mom&#8217;s servant.  They seem to be happy with that set-up, but it irritates me to no end when I watch them interacting (like when I watched how my father would sit in his lazy-boy and order the family around).  This is something that can easily happen in any relationship.</p>
<p>I like how a book I once read by Gary Chapman addressed chores and the like.  He said that a couple before or after marriage should sit down and write down the chores that would be done around the house.  Then, on the same sheet, write &#8220;like&#8221;, &#8220;don&#8217;t care&#8221;, &#8220;dislike&#8221;.  Both partners then can check their answers to the chores, and afterwards discuss how they will handle the dividing up of the chores.  One answer is to share a chore that is disliked (or even liked).  Sometimes, it&#8217;s not even a matter of who is best at something but who likes a particular chore.</p>
<p>Today, I cooked for my girlfriend.  I was really eager to make her a meal she would like (steak, mashed potatoes, corn bread, peach cobbler and so forth).  I had planned the meal for a few days.  We live in Korea, so it was hard getting all the ingredients and such for this meal.  To be honest, I&#8217;m not that great of a cook, and it didn&#8217;t turn out how I wanted it to.  But, I enjoyed doing that for her&#8230;and seeing her eye&#8217;s brighten when she ate the steak (she loved that part of the meal).  I&#8217;m not good at it&#8230;and I really don&#8217;t enjoy cooking&#8230;but in our relationship, it is something I do for her.  And as I mentioned earlier, she hates washing dishes, but after the meal, she got up to wash them since I had cooked (and the rule we had discussed was that the person who cooks doesn&#8217;t do the dishes).  But I reprieved her this time because I wanted it to be a special treat.  But for now, we are both trying to love each other even in areas that we are not necessarily gifted in or particularly like.  I could be wrong because I have never been married, but I think this is how a relationship should work where both are willing to contribute &#8211; even when they are tired or don&#8217;t feel gifted in something.  And when there is an unbalance, then there should be communication in how to make the relationship more balanced.</p>
<p>I humbly offer what I think.  Married couples, please feel free to give me your insight.  And please pray that we continue to learn how to love each other well in God&#8217;s perfect love (and give each other grace when we fall so far short of that).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Still</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96605</link>
		<dc:creator>Still</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2012 14:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Mia, TL, Christensen, I&#039;m enjoying this discussion. A minor point of contention re TL&#039;s comment 

      &quot;Adult partners in a marriage contribute what they are gifted and skilled at. In         this way the best person for the job and the one most interested, is the one who does it.&quot;

I believe in the egalitarian perspective on marriage. However, sometimes in this blog that perspective can be presented in a rather idealistic way, imo. One problem that I&#039;ve seen crop up in the marriages is &quot;overfunctioning&quot; where one partner takes more responsibility for the marriage than the other. 

This kind of problem seems to increase over time as the underfunctioning partner feels less and less responsible because the overfunctioning one assumes more and more responsibility for the marriage. In other words, one partner may have a deeper emotional need for the affirmation that the marriage brings and is therefore &quot;the one most interested.&quot; 

All this to say that I don&#039;t think egalitarians can simply rely upon what they are &quot;gifted and skilled at&quot; to determine who does what. Both partners need to also discipline themselves to feed the marriage where it needs feeding which will always I think (because we are fallen creatures) involve contributing in areas we&#039;re not particularly gifted in. 

(FWIW, neither my husband nor I are very good at finances. We&#039;ve learned that the best approach is to commit to sit down together and go over the budget and pay bills. We both hate this chore! But if either of us relies solely on the other (as we each have done in the past either because he was the head - old comp. days, or because I was slightly more gifted) things fall through the cracks and the &quot;overfunctioning&quot; one becomes resentful.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mia, TL, Christensen, I&#8217;m enjoying this discussion. A minor point of contention re TL&#8217;s comment </p>
<p>      &#8220;Adult partners in a marriage contribute what they are gifted and skilled at. In         this way the best person for the job and the one most interested, is the one who does it.&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe in the egalitarian perspective on marriage. However, sometimes in this blog that perspective can be presented in a rather idealistic way, imo. One problem that I&#8217;ve seen crop up in the marriages is &#8220;overfunctioning&#8221; where one partner takes more responsibility for the marriage than the other. </p>
<p>This kind of problem seems to increase over time as the underfunctioning partner feels less and less responsible because the overfunctioning one assumes more and more responsibility for the marriage. In other words, one partner may have a deeper emotional need for the affirmation that the marriage brings and is therefore &#8220;the one most interested.&#8221; </p>
<p>All this to say that I don&#8217;t think egalitarians can simply rely upon what they are &#8220;gifted and skilled at&#8221; to determine who does what. Both partners need to also discipline themselves to feed the marriage where it needs feeding which will always I think (because we are fallen creatures) involve contributing in areas we&#8217;re not particularly gifted in. </p>
<p>(FWIW, neither my husband nor I are very good at finances. We&#8217;ve learned that the best approach is to commit to sit down together and go over the budget and pay bills. We both hate this chore! But if either of us relies solely on the other (as we each have done in the past either because he was the head &#8211; old comp. days, or because I was slightly more gifted) things fall through the cracks and the &#8220;overfunctioning&#8221; one becomes resentful.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://blog.cbeinternational.org/2012/06/egalitarian-husbands/comment-page-2/#comment-96604</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 16:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.cbeinternational.org/?p=2487#comment-96604</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I will! You are welcome. Sounds as though y&#039;all have a lot going on that&#039;s positive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will! You are welcome. Sounds as though y&#8217;all have a lot going on that&#8217;s positive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
